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I am a programmer

jacquesmattheij.com

51–60 of 130 posts

Re: I am a programmer

#51

Yes, me too, I'm a programmer. That's how I think of myself, regardless of what infinitely varied tasks I may do. And me too, that's what I blurt out when people ask me what I do. In more formal contexts, like resumes and job apps, I call myself a software developer, because that's a more encompassing description of what I do. Software development is not just programming, even if that's the most obvious and the most…

> I never voluntarily call myself a software engineer

I actually had my company change my official job title at one point in my career to "Software Developer". I have an undergraduate degree in engineering (partially because I wanted to rebel against my parent's wishes for me to do CS). Software cannot be engineered like a bridge. Structural engineering is very narrowly scoped. You have a design load, comprised of live loads like wind and moving cars and static loads from the weight of the structure itself. There are entire "cookbooks" of formulas used to compute the theoretical, accepted thickness of the support beams and bolts. There is standardized everything, from the project management terminology to the thread count on the bolts. After graduating, if you gain four years (in some states, less) of practical engineering experience, you can take the Professional Engineer (PE) exam. In some cases, to prove your experience, you need to submit three inches thick of paper calculations you have done while working. The PE exam is rigorous and graded on a curve. But once you pass, you get the pride and responsibility of having a seal that you can use to emboss blueprints. That says you take responsibility for the work. Software development is not engineering, and I have strong philosophical discussions with those programmers who insist on that term.

Software development is creative problem solving. You do not have much creativity in structural engineering.

Re: I am a programmer

#52
The biggest quarrel I have with this whole debacle is how it all started out. A group of wise asses decided they should fancy their title up and now everyone has to "to stay relevant".

The fact is I AM a Software Engineer. I have a degree in Applied Science and I have my Iron Ring. I am registered with my provincial Professional Body. Saying that, I am not just a "Programmer" (I do not mean to sound derogatory) but there is a difference in the fields that I think is getting blurred.

I turned down many jobs that wanted "programmers" because I am an "engineer" and don't want to fall behind in my primary field to take a job that is loosely related. I code at home in my own time releasing small projects only recently digging into bigger ventures that are potentially able to turn profit but that's beside the point. Where I am now is an engineer's job. I do programming yes, but my job requires more than an understanding of computer architecture and design pattern competency to succeed.

I feel like I'm sounding like an ass. I am much more humble I swear! The point is that Software Engg != Programmer we need to stop fooling ourselves and allow the segregation to occur so that programmers are properly recognized and respected for their work!

Re: I am a programmer

#53

The problem I had with Patrick's essay is how derogatory it is to what we do. I am a programmer because it's what I like to do. People pay me money to do it. And when I go home I read about it, talk to others about it, and I practice, practice, practice. I think about how I can write better software, reduce the amount of bugs, test better designs, and improve my productivity. I think about programming all of the time…

The point of Patrick's essay isn't "Programming is lame" or "you shouldn't be proud of your programming accomplishments." How did anyone take that away?

  > It isn't an easy profession and involves far more than typing in a bunch of things that make computers do stuff.
This is true. Nobody said that wasn't the case.

  > I'm not afraid to tell others that I'm a programmer. I 
  > think most people understand what that is by now. I write 
  > programs for computers. 
Look, I love writing code. I That said, coding is what we do to achieve something. Maybe you're trying to make it easier for your support team to track tickets, or helping your client's customers save the most money.

I get that you're proud of your development skills, but at some point your software has to solve a business need, and you need to understand what the need is and how your software is solving it. All the unit tests and properly factored code won't mean anything if you don't. You'll write unnecessary features, or miss writing necessary ones.

Patrick's point as far as I understood it was that we all understand this but we're not billing ourselves that way. If I'm in an interview, or discussing my work with a non-technical associate, I emphasize my ability to understand business needs and write software to meet them. When I talk to technical folks, I emphasize that I unit- and integration-test all of my code and that I understand why DRY code is great.

  > The problem I had with Patrick's essay is how derogatory 
  > it is to what we do.
On the contrary, I think it celebrated what we do. Not the technical aspects -- squeezing performance out of underpowered machines or designing remarkably simple architectures -- but the final outcomes. This app saved us millions per year. These new dashboard reports helped us earn 20% than expected this quarter.

Re: I am a programmer

#54
When I started programming 27 years ago it was uncivil to call yourself a hacker, even if you were. After having dealt with 50 programming and script languages, having dealt with 30 different operating systems and an endless number of idiots, now some kid comes along and tells me that calling yourself a porgrammer in the industry would be uncivil and bad for your career. I just want to thank Jacques for his essay, it has much more common sense in it than the one Patrick wrote. Hey Patrick, I'm a programmer, I'm a hacker, and I'm rich. And you are none of these, don't give advice to people ..

Re: I am a programmer

#55

Patrick's essay had nothing to do with titles. It was about describing what you do in terms of the benefit you provide to your customers/employers rather than in terms of the skills or tools you use to provide that benefit. I could tell people I can program Excel interop in .NET, or I could tell them I saved my company dozens of hours a week by automating an administrative process. To non-programmers, only one of the…

I feel that is the wrong way to approach things. Your job as a programmer was to provide that deliverable as set out by your position. You programmed it and it went along. The outcome of that deliverable was the improvement but your job was to construct it.

I don't pretend that my past jobs were "automating IPTV interface interactions" or "enabling alternative business transaction venues"... I was programming what was needed. Its a white lie the industry has gotten comfortable with and I think we'd be better off if this path was never went down in the first place. People prettying up their titles have essentially "robbed" honest ones ("I'm a f*king programmer") from being treated in the same regard.

Re: I am a programmer

#56
post #52

The biggest quarrel I have with this whole debacle is how it all started out. A group of wise asses decided they should fancy their title up and now everyone has to "to stay relevant". The fact is I AM a Software Engineer. I have a degree in Applied Science and I have my Iron Ring. I am registered with my provincial Professional Body. Saying that, I am not just a "Programmer" (I do not mean to sound derogatory) but t…

As a computer engineer, with an iron ring and a bachelor's of applied science, I feel your pain. In Canada, there seems to be some respect given to the title, although it seems to be waning. In the UK, an engineer is someone who fixes your car or appliances. In the USA, an engineer is someone who writes PHP.

Re: I am a programmer

#57

The problem I have with Patrick's essay ("you are not a programmer") is that it addresses a situation that hardly any developer ever finds himself in. If I go to interview for an engineer position, it matters exactly not one bit that I try to pass myself off as a solutions architect or a business problem solver, except for possibly some awkward glances back and forth. All they want to know is how long I've been codin…

a situation that hardly any developer ever finds himself in

"To a worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."

(Sorry, have actual work to do today, so I'm going to reply mainly in epigrams where I can. ;)

pass myself off as... a business problem solver

Nobody is suggesting that. You don't pretend to solve problems for your business. At least, the business doesn't think so. They pay you. They don't pay people just for fun. They obviously think you're solving some kind of problem, right now.

Even within the seventh layer of a nine-layer bureaucracy, your peers have a problem that they are paying you to solve. Figure out what it is and learn to talk about that.

This needn't be self-aggrandizement, either. "I am one of ten interchangeable members of the QA team that keeps our customers happily renewing their subscriptions by finding bugs before they even see them" is fine. You needn't claim to walk on water all by yourself. People like loyal team players.

If you find that you can't talk about your problem without feeling dirty: That's a data point. If part of the job is "follow orders without thinking like a good little interchangeable part", that's a data point. If you discover that the problem you're solving is "win our division's internal war against the Other Division, customers be damned", you have a data point. If you come to the conclusion that you are in fact paid to cause problems, but the company can't figure that out because the intervening tangle of bureaucracy is disguising the fact, that's a data point. Try to keep doing your job well, but as the data points accumulate, and depending on your personality, you may find that other jobs are calling.

Re: I am a programmer

#58
I don't know about this one. I have a degree in comp sci and a master in software Eng. I've worked too hard in my life to be treated as a janitor. Why shoudnt we get the respect other engineers get?

Re: I am a programmer

#59
post #55

Patrick's essay had nothing to do with titles. It was about describing what you do in terms of the benefit you provide to your customers/employers rather than in terms of the skills or tools you use to provide that benefit. I could tell people I can program Excel interop in .NET, or I could tell them I saved my company dozens of hours a week by automating an administrative process. To non-programmers, only one of the…

I feel that is the wrong way to approach things. Your job as a programmer was to provide that deliverable as set out by your position. You programmed it and it went along. The outcome of that deliverable was the improvement but your job was to construct it. I don't pretend that my past jobs were "automating IPTV interface interactions" or "enabling alternative business transaction venues"... I was programming what wa…

I think you're missing the point - saying "I'm a programmer" essentially means jack and squat to most people.

Saying what you did, and better, what that actually accomplished in real world terms isn't a lie at all, it's what people actually care about.

Re: I am a programmer

#60
"We're middle-men (and women), glorified translators"

By that rationale, teachers are glorified dictionaries, accountants are glorified calculators, and lawyers are glorified secretaries.

"Programmers don't 'unemploy' people"

Bullshit. If I build an automated fraud detection system for a bank and they lay off 50 people in charge of fraud detection after it goes live, I most certainly made their jobs redundant. If I build a more efficient control system for an automobile plant, and they lay off operators as soon as it goes live, I've certainly made their jobs redundant. Efficiency kills jobs by definition. You only create more jobs when you start in a new area, or as a competitor. And even then it's only temporary until efficiencies kill those jobs as well.

"As a ground rule, as long as you are calling other peoples modules you're not yet programming"

Then, as a ground rule, as long as you're drawing triangles, arches, and straight lines, or using a CAD program, you're not yet architecting. As long as you're using 2x4s or windows made of glass you didn't blow yourself to build a house, you're not yet building.

Why does everything have to be built fron scratch in an intellectual vacuum in order to be "real"? Isn't the whole point to stand on the shoulders of the giants who came before?

"Whether you use the word programmer to describe yourself or not has very little to do with what your bank statement tells you at the end of every month."

Actually, it has a LOT to do with what your bank statement tells you at the end of the month. The world runs on respect. And respect comes from other people. Give yourself a title that engenders respect and you'll find yourself able to negotiate FAR better deals for yourself than you would with a less respectable "I'm-just-a-replaceable-cog" title.

"And in such places (and unfortunately also in quite a few smaller ones) the market value of what a person doing your work is charging is what will determine your pay"

No, the market value of a person with your TITLE is what will determine your pay, unless you're known to be a pushover who accepts promotions without pay increases. And if such a 'promotion' happens, you gladly accept it anyway, and then leave 6 months later with your new title to leverage a better salary.

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