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Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire

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Re: Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire

#51

Post by alphabettsy »

reaperducer wrote: post #18
throwaway894345 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hadn't really thought before about how left-wing folks typically want higher wages as well as more mass immigration which inherently suppresses wages. In their defense, they want raises waged by law rather than by market (an elevated minimum wage would raise wages irrespective of immigration), but considering how unlikely a minimum federal wage hike is, it seems like they're pursuing two contradictory goals. EDIT:…

I hadn't really thought before about how left-wing folks Can't HN be the one place on the internet that isn't sullied by tribalism?

Far too late for that unfortunately, but we can try to be better.

Re: Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire

#53

Post by zozbot234 »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #15
zionic wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one reason why these types of megacorps support mass immigration, it provides a steady stream of desperate people they can exploit. Those from other countries also might lack the collective cultural knowledge to stay away.

I hadn't really thought before about how left-wing folks typically want higher wages as well as more mass immigration which inherently suppresses wages. In their defense, they want raises waged by law rather than by market (an elevated minimum wage would raise wages irrespective of immigration), but considering how unlikely a minimum federal wage hike is, it seems like they're pursuing two contradictory goals. EDIT:…

Some parts of the right have advocated for more skilled immigration, which would tend to equalize wages across the board (mitigating a non-trivial cause of inequality) while raising fewer social concerns compared to the unregulated immigration of lower-skill workers. Unfortunately, many left-wing folks tend to oppose such proposals, with the usual 'they tuk er jerbs!!1' arguments. Just look at the reactions here at HN anytime the subject of H1B visas is brought up.

Re: Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire

#55

Post by mc32 »

IMTDb wrote: post #23
lc9er wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a surplus of management eager to exploit workers.

> There's a surplus of management eager to exploit workers. Can also be written "There's a surplus of customer eager to pay the lowest possible price even if that means exploiting workers." As shown by the success of Chinese super low cost brands wether we are talking electronics, fashion etc.

True. Same can be said of unions.

Unions were supposed to protect workers, at least in theory, but they were more than happy to off-shore manufacturing and allow layoffs in the US --as long as they got to keep their union boss jobs. Cesar Chavez understood this. This is why he did not want just anybody to be able to work in the fields.

It's all related. You wanna pay less by offshoring labor? You got it! But one day that off-shoring is going to come get you and your job will evaporate and you will be happy with service sector jobs. And don't complain, you didn't want to pay $70 for a shirt and instead went to buy a $20 shirt and "saved" money but "sold" your job or the underemployed person's job now driving a clunker.

Re: Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire

#56

Post by kennywinker »

IMTDb wrote: post #23
lc9er wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a surplus of management eager to exploit workers.

> There's a surplus of management eager to exploit workers. Can also be written "There's a surplus of customer eager to pay the lowest possible price even if that means exploiting workers." As shown by the success of Chinese super low cost brands wether we are talking electronics, fashion etc.

> "There's a surplus of customer eager to pay the lowest possible price even if that means exploiting workers."

This is just wrong. First, Amazon’s prices and their wages for warehouse workers aren’t directly connected. If they were, amazon wouldn’t have posted 200B in profit in 2021. Given the 1.6mil employees, that’s $125k per employee of profit. Amazon could pay MUCH more, and still hold the same prices.

Second, the hunger for cheap stuff is driven at least in part BY LOW WAGES. If you’re making minimum wage - you’re going to buy the cheapest things you can find.

edit: i'm getting beat up in the comments because I used gross profits rather than $YOUR_FAV_PROFIT_METRIC

I stand by using that number. If you think I am actually suggesting they distribute 100% of their profits to every employee you're straw-manning my point. I'm suggesting cutting a slice off profits, exec pay, and stock grants, and giving that to the lowest paid employees - since the company would not make that money without their labor.

Re: Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire

#57

Post by duxup »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #37
duxup wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>as well as more mass immigration I really haven't seen this with "left wing folks". That sounds more like some folks talking points they want you to buy into. I think you might be mistaken. Any immigration /= "more mass immigration".

I'm not trying to malign anyone here. I'm pretty sure more mass immigration is a left-wing opinion, and I thought that much was uncontroversial. I don't understand the distinction you're making between "any immigration" and "mass immigration". The US already allows a lot of immigration.

>I don't understand the distinction you're making between "any immigration" and "mass immigration".

Because the amount matters?

If we talk about the impact of migration the amount certainly plays into what if any impact occurs.

It really seems like you're stuck on a sort of rhetorical talking point phrase.

Re: Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire

#58

Post by a_shovel »

Arguably the largest company in the world is depleting its own potential labor pool around all of its facilities, due to the sheer cruelty of how it treats its workers.

The assumption has been that there's always more workers, so who cares if you burn them all out before the year is over? Just get some more. But Amazon has unprecedented scale and an unprecedented (sustained) attrition rate, which means they are heading into uncharted territory. Maybe there aren't always more bodies to burn through.

When things like these happen, it's time to consider regularly using terms like "megacorporation" in earnest.

Re: Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire

#59

Post by ramesh31 »

alangibson wrote: post #22

The Fed is about to induce 3 years worth of rising unemployment by their own estimates, so the days of workers not needing to take crap jobs out of desperation will soon be at an end. https://qz.com/2178359/the-fed-predicts-3-years-of-rising-un...

This is the sad reality. The associated wage stabilization is going to be necessary for us to control inflation.

SWEs probably don't need worry about remaining employed, but the days of salary wars will be over.

Re: Leaked Amazon memo warns the company is running out of people to hire

#60

Post by happytoexplain »

reaperducer wrote: post #18
throwaway894345 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hadn't really thought before about how left-wing folks typically want higher wages as well as more mass immigration which inherently suppresses wages. In their defense, they want raises waged by law rather than by market (an elevated minimum wage would raise wages irrespective of immigration), but considering how unlikely a minimum federal wage hike is, it seems like they're pursuing two contradictory goals. EDIT:…

I hadn't really thought before about how left-wing folks Can't HN be the one place on the internet that isn't sullied by tribalism?

I don't see that as tribalistic/negative language at all. However, I do see it in the unqualified assertion that left-wing people want "more mass immigration", which seems misleading and tangential to their actual desires (which seem to be more about treating immigrants better and allowing more cases of legitimate asylum seeking, rather than actively seeking "more" and "massive" immigration in the general case). Even just the more innocuous version of that statement - "make immigration easier" - is not even a popular opinion of leftwingers, as far as I can tell.

Edit: Where "popular" means a strong majority. However, I'm speaking totally intuitively. I'm not sure what the reality of the numbers are, and there are so many subtly different opinions one can poll for just be tweaking the wording.

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