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Web Push for Safari

developer.apple.com

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Re: Web Push for Safari

#51

Post by ben174 »

scarface74 wrote: post #42
swatcoder wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the same things they’re useful for in apps (which are also prone to spam/clickbait). Web push is a prerequisite for moving a ton of apps out of app stores and into the platform agnostic thin client model of the web: messaging clients, timers, background tasks, transaction/shipping status updates, trading tools, etc

You mean making them worse?

You mean not installing yet another application and having another icon on my homescreen for every freaking website I visit? And these apps almost have no need to run any native code or do anything a website can't handle in modern day. Yes. I'm all for it. Let's make browsers more capable.

Re: Web Push for Safari

#52

Post by esrauch »

swatcoder wrote: post #14
mihaic wrote: post #10

I know I'm a bit tangential, but what are some actually useful examples of push notifications for browsers? Every time I've seen them in action was with spam/clickbait, after someone accidentally subscribed and couldn't remove it.

All the same things they’re useful for in apps (which are also prone to spam/clickbait). Web push is a prerequisite for moving a ton of apps out of app stores and into the platform agnostic thin client model of the web: messaging clients, timers, background tasks, transaction/shipping status updates, trading tools, etc

Although apps also send junk push notifications, it seems like websites are drastically worse in terms of push notifications.

The reason is just that I visit many more websites only once and expect no ongoing relationship with them: that means that I am much less likely to want their notifications AND they are much more likely to want me to have notifications AND they have less to lose by being spammy.

Apps can assume higher organic revisits and also being too spammy can result in the downside of the me the app. A website I had no plan to revisit has no punishment for attempting not spam.

Re: Web Push for Safari

#53

Post by airstrike »

olliej wrote: post #28
morepork wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Push notifications are useful in browsers in all the same places they are useful in mobile apps. Note that browser push notifications also work on mobile, so you don't need to install an app to get real time alerts. For example: - Sites with chat can send you messages even if you don't have the tab open (or even browser in some cases) - Online game e.g. board game or chess can push to you when it's your move. - Home…

I turn off/no to push notifications on every app that has ever asked for it, except Messaging and Calendar. Nothing else I've ever installed has warranted more than a little red notification dot on the icon.

This is the way. In addition to those, I have a silent e-mail count badge for Gmail and WSJ news alerts (because they are tangentially relevant for my job)

Re: Web Push for Safari

#54

Post by ben174 »

scarface74 wrote: post #42
swatcoder wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the same things they’re useful for in apps (which are also prone to spam/clickbait). Web push is a prerequisite for moving a ton of apps out of app stores and into the platform agnostic thin client model of the web: messaging clients, timers, background tasks, transaction/shipping status updates, trading tools, etc

You mean making them worse?

Reddit, for instance, should not be an app. It is failure on the browser's capabilities that you can't visit a reddit link without being spammed to death about installing their app. If the browser was capable of the things the reddit product team wanted to do, they wouldn't need to bug you to install their silly web wrapper app. The OS would be able to handle permissions gracefully, instead of letting the app have free reign.

Re: Web Push for Safari

#55

Post by randomtwiddler »

scarface74 wrote: post #43
hamandcheese wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The web is our only hope to not pay Apple/Google 15-30% of all digital commerce. Reaching parity with native apps is crucial.

None of the current messaging apps require or even support in app purchases. So the argument about paying anyone 30% is moot.

Kind of a narrow view. Not all of us who want this are building messaging apps.

Re: Web Push for Safari

#56

Post by turboturbo »

scarface74 wrote: post #43
hamandcheese wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The web is our only hope to not pay Apple/Google 15-30% of all digital commerce. Reaching parity with native apps is crucial.

None of the current messaging apps require or even support in app purchases. So the argument about paying anyone 30% is moot.

Your conclusion doesn’t follow from the statement by the post you replied to.

The relevant criterium that follows from the argument is the prevalence of real-time notifications in paid apps.

Re: Web Push for Safari

#57

Post by dnndev »

scarface74 wrote: post #50
dnndev wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they do. Just ask twilio or nexmo. I get billed every month for sending sms from my app (pass thru carrier fees)

You mean sending SMS as an app developer. Makes sense

Yep, once this feature is available on mobile - will increase our profit by 40% easily.

Re: Web Push for Safari

#58

Post by randomtwiddler »

sidlls wrote: post #26
mihaic wrote: post #10

I know I'm a bit tangential, but what are some actually useful examples of push notifications for browsers? Every time I've seen them in action was with spam/clickbait, after someone accidentally subscribed and couldn't remove it.

Every comment suggesting it brings browsers closer to feature parity with apps is a great argument against the feature. Browsers aren't operating systems. Stop trying to make them be that. It has been a terrible disaster so far, and likely will continue to be going forward, given the lingua franca of development in browsers and all the terrible development practices that have grown up around it.

The "browsers aren't operating systems" ship has sailed long ago, exhibit a: electron apps.

Think of it this way. When feature parity of browser sandbox closes on everything a desktop app might want, you no longer need to build with electron but can simply ship 5-15MB of js+css and use the stock browser instead.

Similar on mobile.

Which will result in: Smaller downloads. Lower memory footprint. Faster launch.

Re: Web Push for Safari

#59

Post by Jcowell »

ben174 wrote: post #54
scarface74 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean making them worse?

Reddit, for instance, should not be an app . It is failure on the browser's capabilities that you can't visit a reddit link without being spammed to death about installing their app. If the browser was capable of the things the reddit product team wanted to do, they wouldn't need to bug you to install their silly web wrapper app. The OS would be able to handle permissions gracefully, instead of letting the app have f…

I disagree, Reddit does well as an app (I’m of the option that HackerNews is too , that’s why in use Octal). It’s just that Reddit has a really bad app.
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