Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon Engineer Sues for Work from Home Costs

inc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 79 posts

Re: Amazon Engineer Sues for Work from Home Costs

#51

Post by paxys »

daenz wrote: post #7

The article makes 2 main points: 1) that this lawsuit will cause companies to take WFH away. and 2) It's extremely difficult to bill things like fractional electricity and internet usage. The first is a flimsy premise because companies simply don't have the power to take WFH away and I think they know that. If they did, they would. But the collectivization for WFH, brought by lockdowns, is far too powerful. So powerf…

The difference is that this lawsuit's judgement will affect not just Amazon but every tech company in California. The thousands of companies that popped up remote-friendly positions overnight will all have to reassess their stance now that they could be on the hook for employees' electricity, internet and even rent.

Right now Amazon and Google have to compete with a startup that is offering a competitive salary and fully remote positions. Can the startup survive if employees start billing them for the cost of their home office?

Re: Amazon Engineer Sues for Work from Home Costs

#52

Post by newbie2020 »

mmastrac wrote: post #5

It does raise the question of why large companies _aren't_ responsible for paying for commuting costs. We've obviously never done it that way, but is there a reason that we couldn't?

The company offers you a salary/wage. It is up to you to determine whether that can cover your commute costs and if the job is worth it when factoring that in. If the company gets involved in calculating individual commute expenses for everyone, they’ll have to hire a department of accountants to handle it. Instead, companies pay you a lump sum (salary) and you decide what to do with it. This is one of the basic purposes of our market economy

Re: Amazon Engineer Sues for Work from Home Costs

#53

Post by yellowapple »

inkeddeveloper wrote: post #43
daenz wrote: post #7

The article makes 2 main points: 1) that this lawsuit will cause companies to take WFH away. and 2) It's extremely difficult to bill things like fractional electricity and internet usage. The first is a flimsy premise because companies simply don't have the power to take WFH away and I think they know that. If they did, they would. But the collectivization for WFH, brought by lockdowns, is far too powerful. So powerf…

They can take away WFH. It’s pretty simple. “You are required in the office.” They will eventually back fill those roles or make those that are left to fill the gap. Either way, they can and will soon.

And then they'll wonder why they can't retain talent. "Must be this generation's work ethic and morals," they'll say, without a shred of self-awareness.

Re: Amazon Engineer Sues for Work from Home Costs

#54

Post by daenz »

inkeddeveloper wrote: post #43
daenz wrote: post #7

The article makes 2 main points: 1) that this lawsuit will cause companies to take WFH away. and 2) It's extremely difficult to bill things like fractional electricity and internet usage. The first is a flimsy premise because companies simply don't have the power to take WFH away and I think they know that. If they did, they would. But the collectivization for WFH, brought by lockdowns, is far too powerful. So powerf…

They can take away WFH. It’s pretty simple. “You are required in the office.” They will eventually back fill those roles or make those that are left to fill the gap. Either way, they can and will soon.

What is stopping them right now?

Re: Amazon Engineer Sues for Work from Home Costs

#55

Post by al_borland »

mrweasel wrote: post #25
philliphaydon wrote: post #4

In australia you can claim things like internet or computer and such at home if it’s used for work. Used to claim back half my internet costs every year.

I’m pretty surprised that places like Amazon doesn’t pay for home internet. My current employeer it the first in a long time that doesn’t pay my internet bill. Electricity can be deducted on my taxes, but I need a seperate meter if I want to do that.

My company used to pay for anyone who did on-call work, but they stopped because the internet got to the point of being ubiquitous. People would still have a decent internet connection with or without the job.

I did actually read one of the recent corporate policies and they will pay up to $30/month toward home internet, but only for those who are full time WFH (not related to COVID). I haven't bothered to do it. It's a lot of hassle for $30.

Re: Amazon Engineer Sues for Work from Home Costs

#56

Post by treis »

motive wrote: post #8
treis wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigger cost would be a rent equivalent on a home office. That's probably low five figures annually. But I don't agree with the overall conclusion. Ultimately the cost of an employee boils down to one number. If they have to pay 15k for home office rent then salary will just be 15k less.

I agree with you generally but there’s also the question of whether an expense is reasonable. Should you be expected to put a desk in your bedroom and have that be sufficient? I live in New York and have an extra bedroom for my office, should my employer be forced to pay for that instead?

Yeah, it's one of those laws that superficially makes sense but tends to not work in the real world. A California specialty.

Probably better to put an upper salary bound on it. Stops the abuse of minimum wage workers while avoiding most of the silliness.

Re: Amazon Engineer Sues for Work from Home Costs

#57

Post by csdreamer7 »

curiousgal wrote: post #20
daenz wrote: post #7

The article makes 2 main points: 1) that this lawsuit will cause companies to take WFH away. and 2) It's extremely difficult to bill things like fractional electricity and internet usage. The first is a flimsy premise because companies simply don't have the power to take WFH away and I think they know that. If they did, they would. But the collectivization for WFH, brought by lockdowns, is far too powerful. So powerf…

Such a myopic view. How would you onboard new employees? I started a new job remotely and it was hell. I learned more in the first two weeks in the office than I did in the first 2 months working remotely.

I worked in person for a local govt and remotely for a large tech company with a completely remote team.

The onboarding was terrible for the local govt. Mostly focused on legal aspects-they expected me to have office communication skills off the bat and they offered little for training with mobile techs that I was hired to do (I just did one or two projects and they assumed I already had full experience). The office politics were dreadful. Lots of meetings where things were not decided and often missing people that could answer questions. When you reach out by email, they just visit you by your desk, ask clarifying questions and explain things verbally, often referring to a site that I have to manually type in.

The large tech company had a terrific 3 month onboarding process and I was slowly eased by senior members into taking on the more repetitive work. I learned more about the company in two weeks then I did for my 6 months for that govt. If there is a question, I can reach out by email and setup an inpromptu google meet-links and commands to use are shared in the chat and easily used and tested. Decisions were made and I am building connections in the industry with people in and outside of work that do not work in my area.

Re: Amazon Engineer Sues for Work from Home Costs

#58

Post by dehrmann »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #13

It is possible - my home office is on a separate circuit (own DB board) and I have a electricity consumption monitor on it. I remember when we went WFH and I was so cheesed over the disruptions in Teams meeting when colleagues used those shitty $10 Chinese made earbuds - asked management to at least supply everybody with a Plantronics headset so we don't waste time. I was told - we are professionals (we need to buy o…

What about HVAC? My laptop and monitor probably add up to 100W. That's maybe $2 of electric per month? My added HVAC bill from being at home is much more, and I'm not sure how to split the bill for it.

Re: Amazon Engineer Sues for Work from Home Costs

#60

Post by dragonwriter »

treis wrote: post #6
motive wrote: post #2

My understanding is that California’s language is pretty unambiguous that businesses are responsible for all work expenses. I think on the legal merits the engineer may ultimately prevail, but I just don’t see how this is a battle worth fighting considering the massive savings that work from home already provides. It’s likely a lawsuit like this could also damage one’s long-term career prospects. It will be interesti…

The bigger cost would be a rent equivalent on a home office. That's probably low five figures annually. But I don't agree with the overall conclusion. Ultimately the cost of an employee boils down to one number. If they have to pay 15k for home office rent then salary will just be 15k less.

> If they have to pay 15k for home office rent then salary will just be 15k less.

I mean, if you assume a monopsony where market clearing prices are set by demand alone, with no supply side effect, sure.

Post reply on HN