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Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

forbes.com

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Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#51

Post by dnissley »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #16
epwr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article [1] seems to state pretty clearly that the law applies to all job posting by a company in Washington state. Any sources saying it's only about jobs open to Washington residents? [1] https://www.dwt.com/blogs/employment-labor-and-benefits/2022...

> sources saying it's only about jobs open to Washington residents? Washington state can't regulate how Microsoft hires people in Texas. Microsoft Corp. isn't even a Washington legal entity. (EDIT: Never mind, I stand corrected [1]. In any case, the broader point stands. Delaware doesn't get to regulate how its entities hire outside Delaware. This is well-settled employment/interstate commerce law.) [1] https://www.s…

Just to take this a bit farther... if Washington state can regulate Washington incorporated entities, can it regulate them to act in a way that would violate laws in other states?

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#52

Post by sokoloff »

JamesSwift wrote: post #46
InefficientRed wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed 100%. At big tech salary is close to useless and rarely the primary number that changes during negotiations. My highest paying job -- a 3.5x raise -- came with a $75K salary cut compared to my previous job. This should be, by far, the top voted comment. I don't think MSFT sharing salary ranges is consequential in any way.

Sure it is. If more start to do it, it becomes an arms race. If a company is loading the compensation in other ways and coming in light on salary then their job posting becomes much less compelling for job seekers. So they have a choice: disclose the other compensation (in order to compete with the salary numbers of the other companies) or adjust their compensation to be heavier on salary so their numbers are in line…

For the longest time, Amazon's cash salary cap was well-known to be in the middle $150K range. I don't see any evidence that hampered their ability to attract job seekers.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#53

Post by xhkkffbf »

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #43

This is going do to absolutely nothing. Most of this legislation does nothing to really address the potential for folks to just advertise incredibly wide potential salary ranges, to say nothing of alternative ways that they can change total compensation "for the right candidate," if you catch my drift. I would suspect that the biggest effect of this is to actually lead to overall greater distrusts, as folks will make…

I can see some heartache if they advertise the range as between $X to $Y and then they make an offer that is much closer to $X.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#54

Post by dubcanada »

There are a ton of people here who probably make 6 figures complaining about pay ranges in job postings.

I am not sure I fully see how this is a problem, any minimum wage job says pay range (or a specific rate), any job for dish washers or line cooks say $18 a hour or what not, a tech job with a six figure salary should at least say a range, since it varies based on skill and department.

I haven't read a single response that I agree with as to why this is a negative? Can someone provide some insight in to why people seem to be against this? Also the silly comments about well $5 to $5 million is a range are just silly. They are going to provide a range like $42k to $55k. Because it is based on skill to some degree (7 years in the industry should pay more you more than 2).

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#55

Post by matwood »

logicalmonster wrote: post #22

Just to play Devil's Advocate: being explicit about salaries is the kind of practice that sounds amazingly good on the surface, but might have some unintended real-world consequences. For instance, whereas before when salaries weren't explicit, a weaker candidate with some good qualities who was on the bubble for consideration might be able to get a job if the salary was more favorable than the company was initially…

I don't think any of these ranges are binding. They simply give the candidate more information to negotiate with. So a company could end up offering more or less than the range, but they need to be ready for a conversation as to why.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#56

Post by sokoloff »

logicalmonster wrote: post #22

Just to play Devil's Advocate: being explicit about salaries is the kind of practice that sounds amazingly good on the surface, but might have some unintended real-world consequences. For instance, whereas before when salaries weren't explicit, a weaker candidate with some good qualities who was on the bubble for consideration might be able to get a job if the salary was more favorable than the company was initially…

Job postings with a range use the term range in a much looser than the mathematical sense. In mathematics, if I say the range is 100-200, I'm telling you that 95 and 205 are not possible. In job postings, if I say the range is 100-200, 95 and 205 are still possible. 100-200 was just a (hopefully) good-faith estimate of the range.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#57

Post by psyc »

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #43

This is going do to absolutely nothing. Most of this legislation does nothing to really address the potential for folks to just advertise incredibly wide potential salary ranges, to say nothing of alternative ways that they can change total compensation "for the right candidate," if you catch my drift. I would suspect that the biggest effect of this is to actually lead to overall greater distrusts, as folks will make…

Internally, salary ranges at MS are quite narrow by job and level. Particularly since they're more compressed toward zero than at the FAANGs and Unicorns. Why would they invite trouble by not simply publishing those?

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#58

Post by 0daystock »

nrclark wrote: post #26

How do the Washington/Colorado salary disclosure laws interact with bonus structures and stock grants? A staff engineer might make $250k/year in base salary, but their total comp could be much higher.

"250/year with bonus and equity options" is what I'd seen - not very helpful.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#59

Post by BlargMcLarg »

dubcanada wrote: post #54

There are a ton of people here who probably make 6 figures complaining about pay ranges in job postings. I am not sure I fully see how this is a problem, any minimum wage job says pay range (or a specific rate), any job for dish washers or line cooks say $18 a hour or what not, a tech job with a six figure salary should at least say a range, since it varies based on skill and department. I haven't read a single respo…

At the very least, MS is probably just "collateral damage" of a law which could help low earners gain more transparency. If you're already working at MS or any big tech, odds are you aren't part of the target audience. Doubly so since information from big corps is pretty readily shared and available already.

Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings

#60

Post by [deleted] »

dubcanada wrote: post #54

There are a ton of people here who probably make 6 figures complaining about pay ranges in job postings. I am not sure I fully see how this is a problem, any minimum wage job says pay range (or a specific rate), any job for dish washers or line cooks say $18 a hour or what not, a tech job with a six figure salary should at least say a range, since it varies based on skill and department. I haven't read a single respo…

[deleted]
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