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Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

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Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wondered about this too and I like your advice about salt but apparently Apple is suing Rivos about this very thing: https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/apple-lawsuit-says-...

The article says 40 employees not hundreds, but I imagine that 40 of Apple's top chip talent is going to hurt, that is a lot of brain power to lose! Seems some employees took more than themselves to Rivos. "at least two former Apple engineers took gigabytes of confidential information with them to Rivos."

I wonder if tha’ts subject to criminal prosecution or merely civil remedies.

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#52
post #38

Why does the biggest and richest company in the world ever have to suffer from talent leaving because they don’t get paid enough? It just doesn’t make any sense.

Things don't become the "est" anything by being wasteful.

Not even the poorest?

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wondered about this too and I like your advice about salt but apparently Apple is suing Rivos about this very thing: https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/apple-lawsuit-says-...

The article says 40 employees not hundreds, but I imagine that 40 of Apple's top chip talent is going to hurt, that is a lot of brain power to lose! Seems some employees took more than themselves to Rivos. "at least two former Apple engineers took gigabytes of confidential information with them to Rivos."

Remember Apple cancelling their contract with Imagination (GPU) and hiring their employees to work on Apple's GPU?

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#54

Why does the biggest and richest company in the world ever have to suffer from talent leaving because they don’t get paid enough? It just doesn’t make any sense.

Steve was notoriously and sometimes arbitrarily cheap. Apple retains some of that.

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#55
From Anandtech's deep dive into the performance and efficiency cores in the A15, which are reused here in the M2.

Performance Cores:

>Apple A15 performance cores are extremely impressive here – usually increases in performance always come with some sort of deficit in efficiency, or at least flat efficiency. Apple here instead has managed to reduce power whilst increasing performance, meaning energy efficiency is improved by 17% on the peak performance states versus the A14. If we had been able to measure both SoCs at the same performance level, this efficiency advantage of the A15 would grow even larger. In our initial coverage of Apple’s announcement, we theorised that the company might possibly invested into energy efficiency rather than performance increases this year, and I’m glad to see that seemingly this is exactly what has happened, explaining some of the more conservative (at least for Apple) performance improvements.

Efficiency Cores:

>The A15’s efficiency cores are also massively impressive – at peak performance, efficiency is flat, but they’re also +28% faster.

The comparison against the little Cortex-A55 cores is more absurd though, as the A15’s E-core is 3.5x faster on average, yet only consuming 32% more power, so energy efficiency is 60% better.

Conclusions:

>In our extensive testing, we’re elated to see that it was actually mostly an efficiency focus this year, with the new performance cores showcasing adequate performance improvements, while at the same time reducing power consumption, as well as significantly improving energy efficiency.

The efficiency cores of the A15 have also seen massive gains, this time around with Apple mostly investing them back into performance, with the new cores showcasing +23-28% absolute performance improvements, something that isn’t easily identified by popular benchmarking. This large performance increase further helps the SoC improve energy efficiency, and our initial battery life figures of the new 13 series showcase that the chip has a very large part into the vastly longer longevity of the new devices.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16983/the-apple-a15-soc-perfo...

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#56
post #44

Thanks to being based on their phone chips Apple came out of the gate with the M1 and cleaned everyone’s clock on performance-per-watt while putting in good to great numbers in general (as a CPU). But their rate of improvement on the A series has been slowing on general tasks. They’re on the same process node, and only increased frequency a bit. Is it really that surprising that performance didn’t take a massive jump…

Tech journalism needs a dramatic story. So every product is either world changing or a complete failure.

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#57

Why does the biggest and richest company in the world ever have to suffer from talent leaving because they don’t get paid enough? It just doesn’t make any sense.

They lack a culture of advancing technology per se, as opposed to making use of it.

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#58

From Anandtech's deep dive into the performance and efficiency cores in the A15, which are reused here in the M2. Performance Cores: >Apple A15 performance cores are extremely impressive here – usually increases in performance always come with some sort of deficit in efficiency, or at least flat efficiency. Apple here instead has managed to reduce power whilst increasing performance, meaning energy efficiency is impr…

This is a really great article from Anandtech with benchmarks and analysis, it explained a lot of things.

> The overall performance gains are quite disappointing when you factor in the raw cost increase that comes with this new M2 and the fact that it has been nearly 2 years since the M1’s introduction.

Also the logic of article in the title is little weird to me. M1 was introduced in the same year as A14, they use the same core; while M2 uses the same core as A15, which introduced 1 year after M1. So technically M2 increased the performance by 18% in one year, not two years.

Though I'm curious why Apple didn't use A16's core in M2.

Re: Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase and A15 Based IP

#60
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems silly to me. CPU designs are important, but these companies have more than enough engineers to make competent designs even with some people leaving. There's another factor that completely dominates. It's all about the fabs. Intel lost the performance lead, was it because of their designs? No, it's because they lost the lead in fabs. AMD passed Intel, was it because of their designs? No, it's because they use TS…

> No, it's because they lost the lead in fabs. AMD passed Intel, was it because of their designs? No, it's because they use TSMC's fabs and TSMC passed Intel. Apple blew everyone away with M1, was it because of their designs? No, it's because they paid TSMC boatloads of money for exclusivity on their latest fabs . The fixation on the fab process is bewildering. Yes, it does help, but it is also an optimisation step t…

Android flagships are shipping with SVE2 as of this year, which I actually didn't realize until like two weeks ago because there's been nearly zero buzz about it. What's SVE2 being used for over NEON as of now?
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