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JetBrains AppCode: an Objective-C IDE That Makes a Difference

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Re: JetBrains AppCode: an Objective-C IDE That Makes a Difference

#51
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be nice, but I'm not sure it's worth pushing 1.0 back a year or so, all other things being equal. I certainly wouldn't call trading a bit of prettiness for a lot of functionality "perverse."

If you mistake the call for Cocoafication for nothing more than a call for "prettiness", you're naturally going to end up missing why people care so much about it. Java applications don't support a lot of deeper OS X features that make the platform so consistent. I have custom keybindings set up via the DefaultKeyBinding.dict mechanism that work pervasively throughout the OS, except in applications like AppCode that…

It was rgbrgb who brought up native GUI elements as the big reason for going Cocoa — I was just replying to his/her comment.

Anyway, like I told frou_dh, I do understand the benefits Cocoa offers. I've been a Mac user since 1985, Cocoa programmer since 2001, got the gold badge on Stack Overflow — believe me, I get it. But I also understand the benefits offered by JetBrains' existing IDE codebase. Engineering always involves tradeoffs. JetBrains' tradeoff may not align with your preference here, but the simple fact is, they now have a highly capable IDE shipping for OS X. Cocoa doesn't have anything particularly helpful to IDEs that would offset the cost of rewriting, so if they had gone with a total rewrite in Objective-C, it seems most likely that they would either not have anything shipping or they would have a pretty but half-baked product (or both).

It's true that not using Cocoa does hurt the product. But there are a lot of ways Cocoa apps can be broken and user-hostile too. The initial release of Xcode 4 was so broken that a lot of people downgraded after trying it for a week. It's still worse than Xcode 3 in terms of stability and responsiveness on average hardware. TextMate has always been Cocoa, but early releases were missing a lot of standard features because so much of the UI was custom code (as the standard Cocoa controls did not offer the functionality TextMate wanted).

So yeah, if AppCode were Cocoa, it wouldn't have all the UI problems it does now. It would have different problems. My point is just that which set of problems you'd rather have is a matter of personal preference. If you disagree with JetBrains' choice, then this is not the app for you, and that's OK.

Re: JetBrains AppCode: an Objective-C IDE That Makes a Difference

#52
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I see Visual Studio get a lot of support on HN, so maybe I am just weird, but I've never enjoyed using Visual Studio as a whole." Me neither. I switched from Visual Studio (C#) to Emacs (Common Lisp) -- and a short stint on the AllegroCL IDE -- and I do not miss Visual Studio one bit. It always struck me as odd to see Visual Studio getting praised here. I can only assume it fares better than Netbeans or Eclipse?

I can't speak for everybody, but I always rated Visual Studio because of its zero-effort code navigation and code completion. (No setup required, and it's surprisingly good at seeing through common preprocessor tricks.) The debugger is pretty good, too, the text editing experience is fine, the whole thing is 99% operable via keyboard, and the scripting language is bearable. This probably doesn't sound like a rousing…

> zero-effort code navigation

Try the ReSharper VS addon from JetBrains -- it makes navigation much much better. VS code navigation really is primitive in comparison.

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