Canadians Unable to Afford Safe Housing Are Turning to Medically-Assisted Death • Hacker News Board

Re: Canadians Unable to Afford Safe Housing Are Turning to Medically-Assisted Death

#51

Post by com2kid » Mon, May 30, 2022, 7:56 PM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #39

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with encouraging builders to go hard with few restrictions is you end up with a low-density urban sprawl that introduces a ton of its own issues. You end up with massively long commutes and a ton of infrastructure that now needs to be maintained, and none of that cost falls on the builder so they happily build fields of new homes miles away from work places or services.

> The problem with encouraging builders to go hard with few restrictions is you end up with a low-density urban sprawl that introduces a ton of its own issues. You only end up with that if that is what sells, i.e. that is what homebuyers want. If the average Canadian didn't want that, the developers would build something else. Your real problem here is with the preferences of the people who buy new homes, and you are…

Ban commuter cars from cities and watch the demand for high density urban housing explode.

Basically replicate the pre-car environment that the world's greatest cities were designed and developed during.

Re: Canadians Unable to Afford Safe Housing Are Turning to Medically-Assisted Death

#52

Post by kelseyfrog » Mon, May 30, 2022, 7:56 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #24

thinkingkong wrote: post #4

Whats wild about affordable housing in Canada is that for every newly built unit we lose 15. Yet almost nobody is talking about that part. You cant build your way out of the problem before you plug the leak. But there are obvious misaligned incentives to do that. The value system of our economy and culture seems to be obsessed with making basic needs a profit center, at all costs, regardless of the consequence.

I’m not attacking you, your heart is in the right place, but your comment illustrates the problem. Housing absolutely should be a profit center. Home and multifamily builders should be unleashed to build as much housing as they can. Let them be greedy; let them get rich. It’ll make housing more affordable for everyone. High housing costs aren’t a failure of the free market - they’re a failure of central planning at e…

The market has no telos other than to perform price discovery. I'm not sure where people get the idea that a market will do anything beyond that. Price discovery of housing has no bearing on being able to provide all people with a place to live. It's akin to saying that a market of Fabergé eggs will ensure everyone gets an egg. The problem is simple, there isn't enough housing irrespective of market or planning. Plainly, market-panaceaism is exhausting.

Re: Canadians Unable to Afford Safe Housing Are Turning to Medically-Assisted Death

#53

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Mon, May 30, 2022, 7:57 PM UTC

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #41

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with encouraging builders to go hard with few restrictions is you end up with a low-density urban sprawl that introduces a ton of its own issues. You end up with massively long commutes and a ton of infrastructure that now needs to be maintained, and none of that cost falls on the builder so they happily build fields of new homes miles away from work places or services.

> The problem with encouraging builders to go hard with few restrictions is you end up with a low-density urban sprawl Low-density sprawl is a result of local governments banning medium and high density building, not the free market. 80% of Austin is still single family homes despite a massive influx to the area. This is not because single-family homes are the most profitable to build, but because they are the only t…

So you are of the belief that, if it weren't for the regulations, the suburbs would be full of high density housing?

Re: Canadians Unable to Afford Safe Housing Are Turning to Medically-Assisted Death

#54

Post by cafer2004 » Mon, May 30, 2022, 7:57 PM UTC

djbusby wrote: post #22

thinkingkong wrote: post #4

Whats wild about affordable housing in Canada is that for every newly built unit we lose 15. Yet almost nobody is talking about that part. You cant build your way out of the problem before you plug the leak. But there are obvious misaligned incentives to do that. The value system of our economy and culture seems to be obsessed with making basic needs a profit center, at all costs, regardless of the consequence.

Where do the 15 go? Destroyed?

They get bought by investment firms and such, then flipped for profits.

We have a real issue since the federal funding of affordable housing got cut by the federal government many years ago. Thus current owners/landlords are having issues keeping the prices affordable, then when they can't sustain the building anymore, they end up having to sell, and agencies with lots of money gets to scoop them up. So we are losing 15 affordable housing units for each one we build to real estates sharks.

Re: Canadians Unable to Afford Safe Housing Are Turning to Medically-Assisted Death

#55

Post by ZoomerCretin » Mon, May 30, 2022, 7:57 PM UTC

frostwarrior wrote: post #40

nostromo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not attacking you, your heart is in the right place, but your comment illustrates the problem. Housing absolutely should be a profit center. Home and multifamily builders should be unleashed to build as much housing as they can. Let them be greedy; let them get rich. It’ll make housing more affordable for everyone. High housing costs aren’t a failure of the free market - they’re a failure of central planning at e…

By the free market alone, letting everyone get a home sounds like a terrible decision. There's a finite number of people that need a home and by the point everyone gets their own home, your business is doomed. On the other side, letting housing to be crazy expensive, with few people capable of getting a new house, will always be profitable.

Builders aren't monoliths, and they're not part of any cartel. They are competitors. It is always advantageous for a builder to be the only one creating new housing; they benefit from supply restrictions that drive prices up, while selling new supply. It is always best for them to build as much as they possibly can, because no one builder can build enough to affect the market by very much.

Re: Canadians Unable to Afford Safe Housing Are Turning to Medically-Assisted Death

#56

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Mon, May 30, 2022, 7:57 PM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #39

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with encouraging builders to go hard with few restrictions is you end up with a low-density urban sprawl that introduces a ton of its own issues. You end up with massively long commutes and a ton of infrastructure that now needs to be maintained, and none of that cost falls on the builder so they happily build fields of new homes miles away from work places or services.

> The problem with encouraging builders to go hard with few restrictions is you end up with a low-density urban sprawl that introduces a ton of its own issues. You only end up with that if that is what sells, i.e. that is what homebuyers want. If the average Canadian didn't want that, the developers would build something else. Your real problem here is with the preferences of the people who buy new homes, and you are…

In that case it seems like the developers having more or less rules doesn't actually matter, no?

Re: Canadians Unable to Afford Safe Housing Are Turning to Medically-Assisted Death

#57

Post by space_fountain » Mon, May 30, 2022, 7:58 PM UTC

frostwarrior wrote: post #40

nostromo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not attacking you, your heart is in the right place, but your comment illustrates the problem. Housing absolutely should be a profit center. Home and multifamily builders should be unleashed to build as much housing as they can. Let them be greedy; let them get rich. It’ll make housing more affordable for everyone. High housing costs aren’t a failure of the free market - they’re a failure of central planning at e…

By the free market alone, letting everyone get a home sounds like a terrible decision. There's a finite number of people that need a home and by the point everyone gets their own home, your business is doomed. On the other side, letting housing to be crazy expensive, with few people capable of getting a new house, will always be profitable.

Only maybe if you imagine developers as one person. It would always make sense for some new greedy developer to build a bunch of extra housing to drive down the cost because they still make more money that way

Re: Canadians Unable to Afford Safe Housing Are Turning to Medically-Assisted Death

#58

Post by rubatuga » Mon, May 30, 2022, 7:58 PM UTC

It’s a combination of multiple factors causing the one patient to turn to MAID, and safe housing is simply one of them. MAID is not the problem, society is.

Re: Canadians Unable to Afford Safe Housing Are Turning to Medically-Assisted Death

#59

Post by im3w1l » Mon, May 30, 2022, 7:58 PM UTC

frostwarrior wrote: post #40

nostromo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not attacking you, your heart is in the right place, but your comment illustrates the problem. Housing absolutely should be a profit center. Home and multifamily builders should be unleashed to build as much housing as they can. Let them be greedy; let them get rich. It’ll make housing more affordable for everyone. High housing costs aren’t a failure of the free market - they’re a failure of central planning at e…

By the free market alone, letting everyone get a home sounds like a terrible decision. There's a finite number of people that need a home and by the point everyone gets their own home, your business is doomed. On the other side, letting housing to be crazy expensive, with few people capable of getting a new house, will always be profitable.

You could ensure that very-basic shacks are affordable without destroying demand for superior products.

Re: Canadians Unable to Afford Safe Housing Are Turning to Medically-Assisted Death

#60

Post by beiller » Mon, May 30, 2022, 7:58 PM UTC

frozenport wrote: post #31

beiller wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will end in either a correction of the price of housing, or a correction on the currency those houses are priced in to bring it back in line with the rest of the world, because from my understanding the economics when adjusted for wages in Canada is the number that is way out of whack. Place your bets!

I don't see a "correction" anytime soon. There are no vacant units and Canada is rapidly filling in with immigrants. Areas like Toronto are booming. Demand is good, supply lags. This could be the state of affairs for decades.

There already was a correction. People only care about the monthly cost, and rates going up 0.5% has just shaved a large chunk off the cost of the property which is not yet realized in the sales due to extremely low sales volume. Any failure to keep up with USA's rate hikes will result in CAD going down vs. USD in my opinion. If Canada's central bank does keep up with QT coming from USA, it will attack the cost of property via large monthly payments. I don't see any way around that. In comment to supply, the number of new housing units being finished in 2021/2022 is at record highs. Immigration has stopped due to covid, yet the price keeps going up. I don't buy the tight supply hypothesis. I think its just due to hoarding and speculation. Why sell when your asset goes up 20%/yr. Many people I know have 2+ properties here (don't forget cottages)