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What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?

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Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?

#51

Post by goto11 »

The final point about positivism is important. Geeks love naturalistic explanations of mythological ideas, however far fetched. Trolls are really cultural memory of Neanderthals. Dragons are dinosaurs. The witch craze was due to ergot poisoning etc.

If anyone is interested in what actual historians think about such theories, read for example this: https://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2018/06/delphic-oracle.ht... Tl/dr: The oracle speaking cryptic prophetic verses from a trance is a literary construction. So the ethylene theory is a trying to provide a naturalistic explanation for a fiction.

Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?

#53

Post by coeneedell »

kordlessagain wrote: post #37
mcphage wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think first it would need to be established that she did in fact see the future.

This is an example of Positivism. I think the primary problem with positivism is the knowledge about the universe is never fully attained, so it feels more like a confused reasoning process. The assumption the scientific method will explain everything someday is irrational. When is that going to happen? With more work? What positivism really is, is a commitment to a bunch of work in the future to "prove" something is…

Well okay, but when the scientific method produces knowledge, the voracity of that knowledge can be checked by an observer. When a mystic convinces a large number of people that their opinions are in fact, truths, that is not a process that can be checked by an observer, and the “knowledge” produced has nothing tying itself back to reality.

Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?

#54

Post by kmonsen »

hprotagonist wrote: post #36
kergonath wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most languages are pretty much universal and unbiased and are capable of expressing an infinite amount of concepts. Yes, most of them are (or can be, with the addition of a couple of neologisms or borrowings). Just like you can do anything with any Turing-complete language. Languages and cultures still have biases and built-in world views. For example, to most Europeans, the idea that you would need to estimate you…

> For example, to most Europeans, the idea that you would need to estimate your social rank to properly address someone is utterly alien. A phenomenon that is, at best, about a century old. Maybe. That there aren’t grammatical forms or special declensions of words that signal rank relationships (as there are in, say, japanese) does not for an instant mean that we do not consciously choose linguistic styles based on s…

In Norwegian you still have to address the king with a more polite pronoun, my grandmother would use this pronoun generally for richer people.

As I understand in Swedish you still need to know someone’s progression to address them politely “how would the software engineer like his coffee?”

Edit: also in Norway most women would wear head coverings when outside 100 years ago. We are not that far from having a culture most of us despise today.

Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?

#55

Post by coeneedell »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #47
rapjr9 wrote: post #38

Seems like the author is neglecting the possibility of human intervention. The priests and priestesses may have found a way to collect ethylene gas from the stream and released it intentionally at the right time. A trade secret so to speak. Hidden secrets in religion are not uncommon.

> Hidden secrets in religion are not uncommon. // It's not clear what you mean here, could you give some examples?

Not the person you replied to of course, but when I saw this the concept of mystery religions comes to mind for me. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Roman_mysteries They were even widespread in the same region at the same time.

Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?

#56

Post by narag »

sdfhdhjdw3 wrote: post #30
photochemsyn wrote: post #28

Our question is: Why did the Pythia go into a frenzy? The major theory you hear about this is that the Oracle was ingesting some kind of drug, possibly a psychedelic derived from rye fungi - but who can say with any certainty? Maybe it was just similar to the 'speaking in tounges' religious phenomenon, which has examples from all over the world: https://www.skeptical-science.com/religion/speaking-in-tongu...

Maybe it was just BS. Don't write off the simplest explanation.

"Drugs" is simple enough. Actually training naked virgins to go bananas without some chemical help seems a little more complicated.

Something the article doesn't seem to consider is the possibilty that there was some kind of (natural or built) chamber where the gas could get trapped and thus concentration be higher.

Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?

#57

Post by dr_dshiv »

The only picture of the Pythian priestess is a red figure drinking cup from around 430 BC. She sits on a bronze tripod, holds laurel leaves and a bowl or water or wine.

She would, apparently, listen to the rustle of the leaves— scry into the ripples of water — and feel the resonant vibrations of the tripod. All in order to channel the wisdom of the god Apollo.

Sources of randomness to support creative inspiration. Seems plausible.

Re: What caused the hallucinations of the Oracle of Delphi?

#58

Post by sdfhdhjdw3 »

narag wrote: post #56
sdfhdhjdw3 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it was just BS. Don't write off the simplest explanation.

"Drugs" is simple enough. Actually training naked virgins to go bananas without some chemical help seems a little more complicated. Something the article doesn't seem to consider is the possibilty that there was some kind of (natural or built) chamber where the gas could get trapped and thus concentration be higher.

Not training. Maybe she figured out that making up bullshit gave her power. Seems a lot simpler than "drugs".
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