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How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

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Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#51

Post by klysm »

jagermo wrote: post #6
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #3

I did not see any temperature measurements of the controller though in this article so the test doesn't feel very scientific to me. It's not just thermal throttling of the controller that causes slowdown, it's also the filling of the DRAM/SLC cache. Also, we should talk more about some vendors screwing over customers by replacing controllers or NAND chips with slower parts to cut down cost while keeping the same SSD…

Are there any programs that can track temperature for different vendors? I'd love to run a few ssds through a benchmark and have hard data for thermal data.

Thermal cameras are surprisingly cheap now

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#52

Post by driverdan »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #3

I did not see any temperature measurements of the controller though in this article so the test doesn't feel very scientific to me. It's not just thermal throttling of the controller that causes slowdown, it's also the filling of the DRAM/SLC cache. Also, we should talk more about some vendors screwing over customers by replacing controllers or NAND chips with slower parts to cut down cost while keeping the same SSD…

Considering how WD did this with switching CMR drives to SMR I wouldn't trust them with SSDs either.

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#53

Post by Marsymars »

mschuster91 wrote: post #43
k8sToGo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can read the temperature from SMART interface.

Only if the interface exposes it. USB ones in my experience outright don't support it or mess it up somewhere in the chain; the only place I got SMART reliably to work was with a direct SATA attachment to a controller.

If you have a desktop PC and want to make the process of connecting external drives to SATA for this purpose a bit easier, you can add an eSATAp bracket to your PC.

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#54

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

driverdan wrote: post #52
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #3

I did not see any temperature measurements of the controller though in this article so the test doesn't feel very scientific to me. It's not just thermal throttling of the controller that causes slowdown, it's also the filling of the DRAM/SLC cache. Also, we should talk more about some vendors screwing over customers by replacing controllers or NAND chips with slower parts to cut down cost while keeping the same SSD…

Considering how WD did this with switching CMR drives to SMR I wouldn't trust them with SSDs either.

ADATA caused some of this by having over 6 builds for the same SKU with different performance metrics.

Their latest SSD (I think), S70, has a marketing bullet point that all S70 parts are built with the same components. Should be unnecessary, but here we are.

I’ve basically never bought anything but the Samsung Pro drives and never once been disappointed.

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#55

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #28
Nullabillity wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The marketing name still seems to be the same according to the article, so it would still fail any reasonable consumer confusion test.

Have you checked the performance difference or are you just venting based on click-bait articles? According to benchmarks, the difference in performance is negligible, in fact the new SKU is sometimes better than the old one in most benchmarks, so there's really nothing to worry about. You're grasping at straws here.

This was the case with ADATA.

They had a lot of SKUs (6) for one part, and despite on paper some of the numbers being lower, and in synthetic benchmarks the drives performing differently, some of the “slower” parts actually performed better than the original reviewed/released samples.

This doesn’t excuse what some people consider bait and switch. But it’s more complicated than many outraged gamers made it seem.

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#56

Post by wtallis »

sandworm101 wrote: post #44
0-_-0 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tested SSD indeed has an SLC cache which likely filled and the author misinterpreted the cause of the throttling as thermal.

The only meaningful way to prove thermal throttling (in any part) is to cool it down and see if that corrects the problem. This author did not do that. Correlation is not causation.

And cooling down in this case has to be accomplished by something other than letting the drive sit idle for a long time, because that same idle time can be used by the drive to empty the cache.

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#57

Post by someotherperson »

kkielhofner wrote: post #46
someotherperson wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any real benefit over some thermal pads and heat sinks? I've passively cooled CPUs to idle at 40 degrees and max out at 60 degrees during benchmarking. I imagine $10 worth of pads and heatsinks would achieve the same outcome as this expansion card.

In my use case I needed to support four x4 NVMe drives (actually eight NVMe across two x16 slots). The low temperatures in a very dense chassis by doing nothing other than mounting the drives is a nice bonus!

That makes a lot more sense. Thank you for expanding. Glad to hear the setup is working for you well :-)

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#58

Post by sandworm101 »

wtallis wrote: post #56
sandworm101 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only meaningful way to prove thermal throttling (in any part) is to cool it down and see if that corrects the problem. This author did not do that. Correlation is not causation.

And cooling down in this case has to be accomplished by something other than letting the drive sit idle for a long time, because that same idle time can be used by the drive to empty the cache.

Letting it cool down and cooling it down are different things. You have to run it at load, let it get hot, then cool it down without removing the load. Do nothing else but spray some liquid N2 at it and watch to see if it speeds up.

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#59

Post by Nullabillity »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #28
Nullabillity wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The marketing name still seems to be the same according to the article, so it would still fail any reasonable consumer confusion test.

Have you checked the performance difference or are you just venting based on click-bait articles? According to benchmarks, the difference in performance is negligible, in fact the new SKU is sometimes better than the old one in most benchmarks, so there's really nothing to worry about. You're grasping at straws here.

Then they shouldn't have anything to fear from being honest about the situation, releasing it as the "second edition" or something, and letting it go through the regular review pipeline like any other new product or revision.

Re: How fast SSDs slow to a crawl: thermal throttling (2021)

#60

Post by wtallis »

sandworm101 wrote: post #58
wtallis wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And cooling down in this case has to be accomplished by something other than letting the drive sit idle for a long time, because that same idle time can be used by the drive to empty the cache.

Letting it cool down and cooling it down are different things. You have to run it at load, let it get hot, then cool it down without removing the load. Do nothing else but spray some liquid N2 at it and watch to see if it speeds up.

> You have to run it at load, let it get hot, then cool it down without removing the load

Sustained load testing can reveal multiple phase changes in performance unrelated to temperature, which can complicate results from a single run (eg. what if you run out of spare blocks before the drive has cooled below the hysteresis threshold to disable throttling). So multiple independent runs starting from the drive in the same state and varying only the cooling method is the most controlled and reliable methodology.

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