Immigrant entrepreneur arrested to meet quotas • Hacker News Board

Re: Immigrant entrepreneur arrested to meet quotas

#51

Post by lwhi » Thu, Oct 20, 2011, 1:13 PM UTC

davidw wrote: post #45

eis wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it was worded a bit harshly but on the other hand, that dream I had honestly is gone. So it's not hyperbolic, just maybe not worded perfectly I admit. Some people may understand my initial comment as bashing against the USA. I want to clearly state that I didn't mean that at all. The last sentence was to express that I'm sad to see such things happen and I'll be the first to cheer if the USA can restore what…

What it used to be when? When black people couldn't vote? When the US was propping up various dictators by virtue of them being "not communists"? There have always been ugly things about the country - just like pretty much every other country, if you dig some. Not to say people shouldn't point out the defects and work to improve them, just that hand-waviness isn't part of the solution, IMO.

I think the point is, ethical progress (be it through abolition of slavery or greater tolerance of difference) should lead to a greater positive effect on the status quo.

If other forms of social, economic and political injustice take the place of previous abominations, the net result is a state which appears disinterested in positively affecting its ethical standing on the world stage.

Re: Immigrant entrepreneur arrested to meet quotas

#52

Post by Mvandenbergh » Thu, Oct 20, 2011, 1:14 PM UTC

tomgruner wrote: post #37

This seems extremely harsh to me. And also stupid not to value this man's contribution to the U.S. In 2004 I arrived in Spain as an American and found a programming job at the international division of a sizable U.S. company. But everything was under the table, and that company did not want to sponsor a visa for me. But even when I was illegal in Spain I still had access to better free health care than the uninsured…

This clearly violates Article 15 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

No it doesn't, no-one in this story is being deprived of their nationality. In any case, the prohibition is on arbitrary deprivation, and a 15 year long court battle is not arbitrary.

Re: Immigrant entrepreneur arrested to meet quotas

#53

Post by chalst » Thu, Oct 20, 2011, 1:14 PM UTC

tomgruner wrote: post #37

This seems extremely harsh to me. And also stupid not to value this man's contribution to the U.S. In 2004 I arrived in Spain as an American and found a programming job at the international division of a sizable U.S. company. But everything was under the table, and that company did not want to sponsor a visa for me. But even when I was illegal in Spain I still had access to better free health care than the uninsured…

I agree with your conclusion, but the violation of article 15 is not perfectly clear: the tricky word in clause (2) is the adverb "arbitrarily" - I think it is generally taken to mean that, in the context of the article 15 being about statelessness, nations are obliged to offer a citizenship path to refugees, but otherwise are not obliged to offer a citizenship path to anyone else.

I got this impression from an article I read ages ago, but 5 minutes with Google Scholar did not give me any sources to back this impression up.

Re: Immigrant entrepreneur arrested to meet quotas

#54

Post by tomgruner » Thu, Oct 20, 2011, 1:19 PM UTC

chalst wrote: post #53

tomgruner wrote: post #37

This seems extremely harsh to me. And also stupid not to value this man's contribution to the U.S. In 2004 I arrived in Spain as an American and found a programming job at the international division of a sizable U.S. company. But everything was under the table, and that company did not want to sponsor a visa for me. But even when I was illegal in Spain I still had access to better free health care than the uninsured…

I agree with your conclusion, but the violation of article 15 is not perfectly clear: the tricky word in clause (2) is the adverb "arbitrarily" - I think it is generally taken to mean that, in the context of the article 15 being about statelessness, nations are obliged to offer a citizenship path to refugees, but otherwise are not obliged to offer a citizenship path to anyone else. I got this impression from an artic…

Your probably right about that, I don't have any legal expertise. It seems that Article 15 states that each person has a right to a nationality, not to the nationality of the country they are in.

Re: Immigrant entrepreneur arrested to meet quotas

#55

Post by rdtsc » Thu, Oct 20, 2011, 1:20 PM UTC

huhtenberg wrote: post #50

rdtsc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home country -- on track to be a citizen. And even E-2 is not just anyone -- it is for rich people. Even the minimum amount quoted $50,000 is considered enormous by most of almost 7 billion people living in the world.

It might be a substantial amount, but it is a legal way to live in the US. So your factoid while interesting is not exactly accurate. Also, to put the $50K in perspective - Canadian permanent resident visa has a requirement of showing $10K in available funds, and there is a metric ton of such visas getting granted every year. $50K is not far off.

So is marrying a citizen or getting an H-1. They are legal. Read my comment, I mean someone from any part of the world, just getting enough money for a plane ticket, getting on a plane or boat, landing in NY and eventually becoming a citizen of US. No need to marry anyone, getting any company to sponsor you, no "gifted" abilities, no need for $50K, no need to have been raped and mutilated by militias and so on. That was my point. Sorry for not being clear enough.

(also $50K is not for personal expenses, this money have to be proven to be used in US economy as a direct investment. Not just showing that you have $50K to spend on shopping at the mall).

Re: Immigrant entrepreneur arrested to meet quotas

#56

Post by TruthElixirX » Thu, Oct 20, 2011, 1:21 PM UTC

eis wrote: post #7

As a kid I always wanted to go to the USA, maybe even live there. So many things to see, the business opportunities and the propagated freedom were very attractive. During the last decade though, the USA have done a fantastic job of eradicating every bit of what was left of this dream. Nowerdays all you hear from them is how Hollywood is destroying little guys' lifes for downloading a bunch of songs, exporting those…

I don't think the USA killed this dream over the past decade. I'm pretty sure things have always been like this for non-whites in the U.S., it is just that the internet allows one to dispel the propaganda.

Re: Immigrant entrepreneur arrested to meet quotas

#57

Post by shiven » Thu, Oct 20, 2011, 1:21 PM UTC

ecopoesis wrote: post #25

steve8918 wrote: post #20

I hate to say it but from a brief reading of the information, it sounds like their asylum was first denied back in 1997, and they've been fighting it ever since. They certainly have the right to fight it, but it's been an uphill battle for almost 15 years, so the outcome certainly doesn't seem like a surprise. The person is obviously a great entrepreneur, he probably should have just left on his own accord instead of…

The point is there are rules. To come to the US you can either: 1) Apply to INS, wait in line, enter the lottery and follow the law. 2) Hop on a plane and hope they don't catch you. He chose route 2, and is now paying the consequences. Just because he's an entrepreneur doesn't give him any more right to be here then any other would be immigrant, and it certainly doesn't give him the right to jump the line

ecopoesis, there are laws and then there is the interpretation of those laws, right? you don't have to be lawyer to see that and i am not one. because there exists a law does not mean it is automatically just and 'right'. laws get changed all the time and examples as this are a good reason to re-evaluate their 'correctness' and discuss in a broader social context the changes that are required.

Re: Immigrant entrepreneur arrested to meet quotas

#58

Post by maratd » Thu, Oct 20, 2011, 1:25 PM UTC

compay wrote: post #32

I'm American. My wife is Argentine. We live in Argentina in large part because when we wanted to marry in 2006, we couldn't get her a permanent visa to live in the USA. Her fiancee visa was in fact quickly approved, pending an interview at the US consulate in Buenos Aires. We waited and waited, called, had our lawyers call, and the response was always "when the consulate is ready to make an appointment, they will cal…

Nobody is going to dispute that the immigration laws in the US are draconian. They're a patchwork sown together by various special interests and make very little sense. However, in the past, they were rarely enforced. Only in instances where someone committed a felony or something of that nature. Over the last decade and especially during the Obama administration, ICE stepped up enforcement. If I had to guess, I'd say it's related to the recession? I honestly don't know why.

Re: Immigrant entrepreneur arrested to meet quotas

#59

Post by drieddust » Thu, Oct 20, 2011, 1:27 PM UTC

eis wrote: post #7

As a kid I always wanted to go to the USA, maybe even live there. So many things to see, the business opportunities and the propagated freedom were very attractive. During the last decade though, the USA have done a fantastic job of eradicating every bit of what was left of this dream. Nowerdays all you hear from them is how Hollywood is destroying little guys' lifes for downloading a bunch of songs, exporting those…

Ever since Obama came to power American Visa system got fucked up. I work for a consulting firm and people are denied Visa on arbitrary grounds such as "we are not satisfied with your purpose of visit", "why you need to meet your customer face to face" etc.

Even that is fine but funny thing is that same person is allowed visa for the same purpose when he applied next time :)

American under Obama have started some kind of cheap protectionism.

Re: Immigrant entrepreneur arrested to meet quotas

#60

Post by fourmii » Thu, Oct 20, 2011, 1:27 PM UTC

I'm an Australian, currently living in the US on a green card via being married to an American. While I sympathize with his plight and I also strongly believe that when you choose to enter a country, you should respect it's laws. He did willingly come to the US and overstay his visa, so therefore broke US immigration laws. Now I don't necessarily agree with the US immigration process, I believe it's rather tough and unfair not to mention a little demeaning and insensitive.

What do you do though, the immigration system doesn't seem to be set up to handle exceptions. Once you make one, you have to grant exceptions to others. It's a tough dilemna, Atanas has been seemingly a constructive member of society, hopefully paying taxes along the way. It would be a shame in this sense to punish such a person.