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Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#51

Post by [deleted] »

ResNet wrote: post #10
Havoc wrote: post #5

Ah the classic "But think of the children" appeal... Anybody know how this will impact proton?

It shouldn't (directly) affect ProtonMail — they're based in Switzerland, which is not an EU member and thus not bound by EU law. That said, it's possible that this could be implemented in a GDPR-like fashion, where non-EU companies offering services to EU persons would be required to follow these laws. It's also worth noting that the EU and Switzerland do have some bilateral agreements [1] for single market access,…

[deleted]

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#52

Post by andai »

oxff wrote: post #35

For the longest time I have been treating every communication that's not private, in-person with someone I know as essentially public (iow. this changes almost nothing to me, I consider anything online more-or-less public, under surveillance etc already).

Most in-person conversations today take place near internet-connected microphones (and more recently, integrated with smart-assistant technology specifically designed to collect your voice data).

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#54

Post by tinus_hn »

joebob42 wrote: post #6

I don't understand who wants this. does any of their actual constituency want it? Or is it literally just the actual elected officials getting power hungry? Stuff like abortion, etc where I don't really understand the other side. I've at least met real people who are pro life. I've never met the people who want these clownish surveillance things but they keep coming up anyways.

But what about the drugs! And think about the children! And if you’re not doing anything wrong, you don’t have anything to hide!

In general a large portion of the electorate doesn’t actually care or can be swayed using the flimsiest of arguments.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#55

Post by denton-scratch »

reedjosh wrote: post #27
fabatka wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understand this apparent motive of "elected officials getting power hungry". How would this legislation make the people in the EU Commission more powerful? Am I just lacking imagination?

> Am I just lacking imagination? Yes. The EU is becoming a totalitarian regional government of elites. Originally it wasn't even supposed to have a military presence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_forces_of_the_European... It was supposed to prevent the need of passports. https://www.covidpasscertificate.com/europe-digital-green-pa... All the good things are going out the door and all the bad things are walki…

> The EU is becoming a totalitarian regional government of elites.

"Becoming"? That's how it was designed. Well, not "totalitarian", exactly; it was designed to make sure that the member governments stayed tightly in charge. The EU Commission is composed of government appointees from the member governments, and is the most powerful EU institution. EU commissioners don't go rogue (not against the wishes of their own government; but they are infinitely corrupt).

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#56

Post by akomtu »

joebob42 wrote: post #6

I don't understand who wants this. does any of their actual constituency want it? Or is it literally just the actual elected officials getting power hungry? Stuff like abortion, etc where I don't really understand the other side. I've at least met real people who are pro life. I've never met the people who want these clownish surveillance things but they keep coming up anyways.

Royalty and their kids, probably. Those people who just own land, collect rent, and are scared that one day people will realise that they don't need that ballast.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#57

Post by DocTomoe »

srcreigh wrote: post #45

Here's the uncommon opinion. Google/FB, by extension US government, already performs mass surveillance. There are actually 2 solutions to this problem. One is stopping Google/FB. The other is making mass surveillance more common, lessening the impact of mass surveillance. In that sense non-US govs taking mass surveillance is a boon to power balances and competition amongst nations and economies. Does this opinion hav…

Neither Google nor Facebook has built concentration camps in the past. The same can not be said about state actors. Thus, private companies, especially those in some other country, are inherently more trustworthy than a local government body could ever be.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#58

Post by truthwhisperer »

Zhenya wrote: post #2

If EU really wants to curb risk to children: -significantly raise the penalty for sexual child abuse -provide clinics and medications for people with this mental disease However, that’s not really the goal here is it…

No post body was provided.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#59

Post by neither_color »

mildmotive wrote: post #26

These tyrants have to be stopped. A tyrannical government is far more dangerous to people, including children than your regular criminal. Ironically, by giving the state too much power and therefore increasing the symptoms of corruption, we allow the same sort of crimes to be practiced by corrupt state officials with little means for people enact accountability. China, the country with the most mass-surveillance in t…

It's interesting how EU regulators build good will through stunts like mandating USB-C or forcing open the App Store and GDPR protections and then turn around and do stuff like this.

Re: Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11

#60

Post by orwin »

Ok, i'm not defending this, but as i might have a bit more insight on how the EU actually work, i will share my limited knowledge.

The commission is the European executive power. It is a mostly unelected body.

The parliament is the one you vote for if you do vote during the european elections

The council is composed by representative of the head of state from the 27 countries.

Once a law is drafted by the European commission (i don't think they can have the idea themselve btw, they just help draft the proposition to try to make it pass through the european court, but i believe they are not the originators of the proposition. 90% sure i'd say), it can follow two procedures: either the ordinary (also called codecision procedure) or the special (consultation procedure). The second case rarely happen, and is limited right now to trade laws basically. So the law we're talking about will have to follow the ordinary procedure.

This procedure will set this law proposition in front of the parliament. The parliament will either accept or modify (cannot abandon the law that fast sadly). Then the european council will decide if they agree on the text. If they do not, they either reject it or they modify it (yes, i know) and send it to the parliament a second time. Once again review, modifications, and, if not enough support, rejection. This will certainly end the proposition here. If it is not rejected but simply modified, then the council will debate on this. Any government can choose to stop and/or reject the text at this point. I think there is one more step if the text isn't rejected yet but i'm not exactly sure what this step entails (i assume a special commission between the EU parliament and the countries that did not agree to the text/that push the text)

It is interesting to have this information, but keep indignation low. I don't believe this will pass step 3.

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