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Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

bbc.com

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Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#51

Post by ramraj07 »

Whenever someone talks about mindfulness or stoicism, the name that pops to my head is Tim Ferris. Like a less crappier Joe Rogan with an actual brain maybe? I still listen to some of his podcast episodes because he gets guests who I want to learn about. But oh my god the narcissism! I get it the podcast is about success and how to succeed, but for the love of god try to take your head out of your own ass for a minute? I’ve listened to tens of hours if not hundreds and haven’t ever heard him talk about a single act of kindness or help he or his guests have ever done to strangers.

You know what he’ll bring up every day? Mindfulness or meditation or stoicism. Like buddy, if you can’t sleep it’s probably because you know you’re not a nice person deep down. No amount of meditation is gonna help that.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#52

Post by bowsamic »

neltnerb wrote: post #22

True Story. I was newly moved to San Francisco and enrolled in a meditation course on literally loving-kindness (they were all mindfulness, this was a focused seminar). When I was on my way in someone was having a mental health emergency right outside the front door and looked to clearly need care. Not knowing who to call for this since I didn't live in the city, and definitely not wanting to call cops, I went in and…

This happens even at large zen monasteries. Truth is, Buddhism has no mechanism for distinguishing between mental illness and the usual suffering all samsaric beings experience. Therefore, Buddhist teachers cannot deal with mental health emergencies: all mental suffering is seen through the Buddhist lens

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#53

Post by roflc0ptic »

neltnerb wrote: post #22

True Story. I was newly moved to San Francisco and enrolled in a meditation course on literally loving-kindness (they were all mindfulness, this was a focused seminar). When I was on my way in someone was having a mental health emergency right outside the front door and looked to clearly need care. Not knowing who to call for this since I didn't live in the city, and definitely not wanting to call cops, I went in and…

Well - how many of them did you need to help you?

Something like this occurred at my buddhist temple during a meditation, except it was one of the members who collapsed. Someone went over help and the rest of us... couldn't do anything more. An ambulance was called. they got medical treatment.

Should we have collectively wrung our hands? To what end?

The point here isn't averting your eyes in the face of suffering, it's about correctly judging the situation and taking only effective action. Collectively performing impotent empathy isn't any more useful to the ailing person than quietly sitting and sending them prayers/lovingkindness/whatever.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#54

Post by [deleted] »

neltnerb wrote: post #22

True Story. I was newly moved to San Francisco and enrolled in a meditation course on literally loving-kindness (they were all mindfulness, this was a focused seminar). When I was on my way in someone was having a mental health emergency right outside the front door and looked to clearly need care. Not knowing who to call for this since I didn't live in the city, and definitely not wanting to call cops, I went in and…

[deleted]

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#55

Post by bowsamic »

zozbot234 wrote: post #41
doelie_ wrote: post #30

Vipassana style meditation (minfulness) should always be combined with Metta (lovingkindness), especially for westerners. That's the advice I keep seeing.

Vipassana is insight meditation, not mindfulness and not really appropriate for beginners. The closest equivalent to mindfulness would be concentration, or samadhi.

Not accurate at all, mindfulness and samadhi are two different factors in the eightfold path

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#56

Post by [deleted] »

bschne wrote: post #17
rjh29 wrote: post #5

10-20 minutes/day was enough to teach me how to be 'mindful' on demand and mitigated a lot of mild ADHD-type problems in my life (impatience, anger, finding queues unbearable, high sensitivity to noise etc.). I spent a few months doing more, and it may not be related, but I became increasingly detached from the outside world, more self-absorbed and less motivated. Spent a lot of time just sitting and being content wi…

Mind sharing your routine? Dealing w/ similar issues and been meaning to try this sort of thing for a while after a few friends have recommended it…

[deleted]

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#57

Post by LightG »

neltnerb wrote: post #22

True Story. I was newly moved to San Francisco and enrolled in a meditation course on literally loving-kindness (they were all mindfulness, this was a focused seminar). When I was on my way in someone was having a mental health emergency right outside the front door and looked to clearly need care. Not knowing who to call for this since I didn't live in the city, and definitely not wanting to call cops, I went in and…

Going to be honest, this sounds like horsesh!t.

In my entire life, meeting people from all walks of life (including people I vehemently disagree with, and some I would almost consider enemies, and even some zen Buddhists), when it came to the crunch, I know they/we would all have run towards an emergency as humans/neighbours.

On the other hand, let me assume it's true, then it isn't representative IME.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#58

Post by _y5hn »

babyshake wrote: post #42
IdEntities wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that it's necessarily fair to describe this as a purely Western phenomenon. The Lamas were a hereditary elite who ruled over Tibet in a brutal caste system which reduced most of the people in it to the status of serfs, and all with their own particular strain of Buddhism used to justify and excuse it all. On our fridge, my wife has a picture of the Dalai Lama wearing a big fancy watch on his wrist. I alw…

In a way, it is good for a famous spiritual leader to have obvious human flaws. I don't know too much about modern Buddhism but I don't think it would be good for Buddhists to worship their leader as being more than a mere mortal who might enjoy wearing a fancy watch.

It's a petty concern for someone who visits world leaders and maintain international relations at that level. It could be a conversation-starter in more unofficial moments, for fun (spiritual people are allowed 1 teaspoon of fun each day!) or just being practical.

These kinds of topics are unfortunately what the focus many will remain at.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#59

Post by _bfhp »

rygxqpbsngav wrote: post #36

Bound to happen. Why do you think Buddha has to leave all his wealth and kingdom before even starting the journey of mindfulness, leaving everything behind? The western adaptation is reducing meditation and mindfulness to a "tool" of relieving stress and better ones mental well-being. As easy as downloading an app and stay calm for few minutes. Unfortunately, this is not ideal. The traditional way is to seek a guru w…

What a comment. A feast for the inner reply guy:

> The traditional way is to seek a guru

"The" way? According to whom? Did you do it?

> Some even leave everything and go to forest or mountains to practice for years.

Except the Buddha and his stories explicitly advised against asceticism...

> they should practice "Raja Yoga" which is also a spiritual path where one raises their spiritual plane

Again, according to who? Why not Jesus? Or Scientology? What's your personal experience?

> However simple breathing exercises still work for the body and can be easily incorporated into every day lives.

Well this is out of nowhere. It doesn't connect to anything that's been said. Do you do this?

> When one goes to discover/amplify their inner core

Inner core is new. What's that and who asked? Is it the same as a True Self?

I'd say let's just focus on this: "Meditation is a part of ones spiritual journey." That's correct and all this issue needs. MBSR and the other sanitized, faith-cleansed scientifically quantifiable practices are not synonymous with mindfulness, meditation, or Buddhism. They're tangential, and for some they are nice greeters at the door to a path of spirituality.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#60

Post by jamal-kumar »

IdEntities wrote: post #39
rygxqpbsngav wrote: post #36

Bound to happen. Why do you think Buddha has to leave all his wealth and kingdom before even starting the journey of mindfulness, leaving everything behind? The western adaptation is reducing meditation and mindfulness to a "tool" of relieving stress and better ones mental well-being. As easy as downloading an app and stay calm for few minutes. Unfortunately, this is not ideal. The traditional way is to seek a guru w…

I don't know that it's necessarily fair to describe this as a purely Western phenomenon. The Lamas were a hereditary elite who ruled over Tibet in a brutal caste system which reduced most of the people in it to the status of serfs, and all with their own particular strain of Buddhism used to justify and excuse it all. On our fridge, my wife has a picture of the Dalai Lama wearing a big fancy watch on his wrist. I alw…

Here's a zen koan

Have you ever asked your wife about this?

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