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Configuring My Machines with Bashtard

tyil.nl

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Re: Configuring My Machines with Bashtard

#51

Post by Havoc »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #25
Havoc wrote: post #22

Author should have stuck with ansible a bit longer. It can stream shell commands so you've got all the usual sed awk etc And has a battle tested OS detection logic built in. >This value is correct for Debian and derivatives, but not for my Gentoo or FreeBSD systems, so I’ve created OS-specific configuration files for these. And can copy in different templates depending on OS. Hell it can even detect whether its in a…

I didn't look too closely at this but Ansible offers a number of guarantees such as idempotency, locking, etc. If this thing is just people wrapping their shell scripts in on of the functions this thing executes then it's automatically worse than just using Ansible. Because nobody is going to care to make their script...good.

>Ansible offers a number of guarantees such as idempotency,

You can wrap anything in ansible basically, including stuff that isn't idempotent.

Some of their modules are definitely conducive towards achieving it though.

Re: Configuring My Machines with Bashtard

#52

Post by dijit »

fknorangesite wrote: post #44
austinjp wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(slang)

"Git" is an insult, but it's not a slur.

Etymology is weird.

Git is derived from "Get" (as in "beget") which is another term for a bastard.

Watered down through the decades and much less sting, but the meaning is the same.

Re: Configuring My Machines with Bashtard

#53

Post by dijit »

rgoulter wrote: post #50
kelnos wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that bothers me about the people who dig in and insist on continuing to use "master" is that... well... this is the hill they want to die on? If changing was some big expensive process, or if it was a name that held some sort of special historical significance (or whatever), I could maybe see the argument against. But it's... the original default branch name of a source control tool. Get over it and move on…

The appeal to arbitrariness goes both ways. If it's a minor choice, insisting it be changed is silly. "Get over it and move on" applies just as much to either. That people have feelings about a topic that's disproportionate to its significance is characteristic of a flame-war. It's natural for people to hold strong opinions on all sorts of stuff like this. It's very human.

Everyone has opinions over the colour of the bike shed.

Re: Configuring My Machines with Bashtard

#54

Post by dhzhzjsbevs »

kelnos wrote: post #34
dhzhzjsbevs wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It needs to be explained that it's not using ableist language Why? This doesn't logically follow to the author renaming their thing unless you think speech policing on the internet is some kind of valid passtime or has any weight on anything in the real world. > meaning that every time it's shared a discussion like this one will take place So it's a good PR move because the PC police can't figure out that just mayb…

It doesn't matter if you believe speech policing is valid or not. It does and will happen. I mean, look here: right now the top two top-level comments here are about the name, rather than talking about the project itself. It's irrelevant what should or should not be, in this case. If you want to avoid people discussing potential controversy around the name you've chosen, then don't choose a name that has controversy…

Why do you think they chose a controversial name? For fun?

Re: Configuring My Machines with Bashtard

#55

Post by dijit »

dahart wrote: post #20
maleldil wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bashtard is one letter away from bastard. You're stretching if you're reading it as retard.

It’s 0 letters away from bash ‘tard, and not really a stretch to speculate that the name might be intentionally a pun that has both meanings.

it's 4 letters away from 'tard' since it requires the removal of letters.

That's like saying "Scunthorpe" is 0 letters away from 'cunt'.

Re: Configuring My Machines with Bashtard

#56

Post by nerdalert187 »

kelnos wrote: post #30
geocrasher wrote: post #3

Neat concept, cringe inducing name. Could have called it "Baby Got Bash"

Yeah, I was really hoping it was supposed to be pronounced like (and a play on) "bastard", but it seems like it's intended to be a mashing together of "bash" and "retard", which... oof. Maybe I misinterpreted the small note on the pronunciation, though. If so, I'd suggest the author further clarify.

> followed by “tard” (as in “bastard”)

It sounds like it's intended to rhyme with "stirred" and not "starred." The latter, intended as a slur is unacceptable (imo), but the former?

Re: Configuring My Machines with Bashtard

#57

Post by fknorangesite »

dijit wrote: post #52
fknorangesite wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Git" is an insult, but it's not a slur.

Etymology is weird. Git is derived from "Get" (as in "beget") which is another term for a bastard. Watered down through the decades and much less sting, but the meaning is the same.

Don't be obtuse. As widely discussed in this thread, we aren't talking about "bastard."

Re: Configuring My Machines with Bashtard

#58

Post by dijit »

fknorangesite wrote: post #57
dijit wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Etymology is weird. Git is derived from "Get" (as in "beget") which is another term for a bastard. Watered down through the decades and much less sting, but the meaning is the same.

Don't be obtuse. As widely discussed in this thread, we aren't talking about "bastard."

some people want to talk about the latter section of the word "tard" being shorthand for "retard" presumably.

So I'll take you up on that, even though I fully disagree that this is the pun the author was making.

I'll start by saying that "to retard" has actual meaning, outside of derogatory statements, slurs or so on. In fact, that meaning predates by many hundreds of years: the description of people in such a way.

Since you could argue that this project is trying to speed up development, it could also argue that this is a commentary on "being retarded from your original objective" of running commands.

So, my first argument is that "to retard" can have meaning outside of being offensive, in fact, that was its primary use.

Now: Retard is a slur, absolutely. But, is it worse than Idiot? Moron?

At some point in time those were clinical definitions to mean the same thing as retard, they became used as slurs and fell out of favour.

Now, ironically, they are less inflammatory than the new derogatory word.

So, my second argument is that being offended by certain language is arbitrary.

---

Why am I arguing? Because you assume mal-intent where it's possible there is none. I genuinely assumed "bashtard" = "bastard", and that's "as offensive" to me as "git" (as a living and breathing british bastard), I didn't jump to the conclusion that it was attempting to denigrate low IQ people.

This type of language policing needs to be self-critical, because if you're not willing to be critical on what you're putting out into the world and onto other people: I will be, and you'll hate me for it.

Re: Configuring My Machines with Bashtard

#59

Post by patrck »

tyil wrote: post #46
patrck wrote: post #8

Seems like it should use m4 instead of sed/awk for the templating. And `make` for the dependencies that will arise, eg. HUP sshd after config change.

I've never used m4 directly, but it might be interesting to look at. I'll try to make some time to look around for information on this. If you have any pointers to get started, I'd be very interested.

The gnu m4 manual is the go-to documentation.

One way to think about m4 is as form-substitution, eg. the ssh-config customization via sed.

Another is as text generator, eg. the classic sendmail config generator, where one writes m4 succinctly which in turn generates complex files.

From a 10,000 meter perspective, all the managed servers' config files are a projection from the central config repository. If that config is already an m4 file, then all that's left is finding the variant configs and handling them.

`make` is another nicety, as it handles the dependencies, eg. scp'ing the config and then HUP'ing the daemon only when that config changes.

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