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How Apple overcame its culture of secrecy to create AirPods Pro

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Re: How Apple overcame its culture of secrecy to create AirPods Pro

#51

Post by esrauch »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #35
urthor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind this attitude makes total sense to hardware engineers. The hardware business is... Let's just say that the difficulties you face definitely exist for hardware engineers. But, difficulties involving negotiations plus recalcitrant South Korean factory owners are WORSE. In "South Korean factory owner negotiations," secrecy is paramount. Particularly if said South Korean factory owner is the biggest supplier…

> Keep in mind this attitude makes total sense to hardware engineers. > The hardware business is... > Let's just say that the difficulties you face definitely exist for hardware engineers. I’ve worked in hardware and I’ve worked with multiple Korean CMs and I’m still struggling to understand what you’re trying to say. I don’t agree that this makes “total sense”. Instead of being intentionally vague, can you please ju…

I don't see the comment you replied to as being that vague: that are claiming that the information asymmetry with the hardware manufacturers/suppliers (including Samsung) in terms of things like price negotiations and "what's the next big thing" is more valuable than the downsides of internal engineer productivity.

Re: How Apple overcame its culture of secrecy to create AirPods Pro

#52

Post by _drkh »

asdff wrote: post #31
urthor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind this attitude makes total sense to hardware engineers. The hardware business is... Let's just say that the difficulties you face definitely exist for hardware engineers. But, difficulties involving negotiations plus recalcitrant South Korean factory owners are WORSE. In "South Korean factory owner negotiations," secrecy is paramount. Particularly if said South Korean factory owner is the biggest supplier…

How much of an advantage are you really getting here? The first day they are sold samsung has the airpod torn apart and rendered on a computer screen with all specs known. There are no big secrets here, these aren't warheads. It didn't take long for the gas stations around me to start selling knock off airpods along side the knock off lightning cables. If you get it early vs not, its not going to make a big differenc…

I imagine the brand recognition of being the innovator here (whether or not they really have innovated on anything, I won't judge that here) is a bigger factor in the market than it appears at first. At the very least, that lasting, prestigious reputation of being a global innovator fits the bill for the type of "personality" that the corporation exhibits and must tickle something's fancy there, and at most it causes a skew in the market towards Apple whereupon they can charge their exorbitant prices per unit because they did it first.

Something that's telling of my conjecture is the use of the phrase, "knock off airpods" in your comment - I imagine that came about subconsciously, and yet such a phrase seems to have a powerful effect on every other product that comes after.

e: formatting, I get markdown rules mixed up with HN's!

Re: How Apple overcame its culture of secrecy to create AirPods Pro

#53

Post by deanCommie »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #35
urthor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind this attitude makes total sense to hardware engineers. The hardware business is... Let's just say that the difficulties you face definitely exist for hardware engineers. But, difficulties involving negotiations plus recalcitrant South Korean factory owners are WORSE. In "South Korean factory owner negotiations," secrecy is paramount. Particularly if said South Korean factory owner is the biggest supplier…

> Keep in mind this attitude makes total sense to hardware engineers. > The hardware business is... > Let's just say that the difficulties you face definitely exist for hardware engineers. I’ve worked in hardware and I’ve worked with multiple Korean CMs and I’m still struggling to understand what you’re trying to say. I don’t agree that this makes “total sense”. Instead of being intentionally vague, can you please ju…

The "open secret factoid" that OP is dancing around is that Samsung makes screens for iPhones, and is also obviously Apple's biggest competitor as the default "Premiere Android phone" brand.

I don't really see what this detail has to do with OP's point about hardware engineer logic/gang of four/etc

Re: How Apple overcame its culture of secrecy to create AirPods Pro

#54

Post by AlotOfReading »

serenitylater wrote: post #46
AlotOfReading wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's aggravating for sure. I've cancelled interviews with them before because they couldn't confirm that I was actually interviewing for the team and product I knew I was interviewing for. The secrecy often crosses the line into silly and even disrespectful.

For real, was it their self driving division? The faux secrecy in that was astounding. Like everyone knows what is going on here just tell that the computer vision machine learning job focused on high definition video and LiDAR data is for the car, we both know it’s for the car.

Got it in one. It was the only division I was interested in, they reached out to me, and I made that extremely clear upfront. There were already 6 other offers on the table and having been through Apple's fairly exhausting process before, didn't want to waste time interviewing for a team at the wrong level in the stack.

Re: How Apple overcame its culture of secrecy to create AirPods Pro

#55

Post by halotrope »

Lets take a moment to appreciate that obnoxious auto-playing video that covers half the screen on mobile. Bonus points for it staying there when scrolling. I am really wondering what it will take to make the web more like wikipedia and less like a casino.

Re: How Apple overcame its culture of secrecy to create AirPods Pro

#56

Post by adastra22 »

esrauch wrote: post #51
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keep in mind this attitude makes total sense to hardware engineers. > The hardware business is... > Let's just say that the difficulties you face definitely exist for hardware engineers. I’ve worked in hardware and I’ve worked with multiple Korean CMs and I’m still struggling to understand what you’re trying to say. I don’t agree that this makes “total sense”. Instead of being intentionally vague, can you please ju…

I don't see the comment you replied to as being that vague: that are claiming that the information asymmetry with the hardware manufacturers/suppliers (including Samsung) in terms of things like price negotiations and "what's the next big thing" is more valuable than the downsides of internal engineer productivity.

Maybe? They didn’t claim anything at all. I didn’t see anything in that comment about price negotiations. Frankly I’m as confused as the grandparent as to what was being said.

Re: How Apple overcame its culture of secrecy to create AirPods Pro

#57

Post by mwattsun »

It'd be interesting to see a comparison of Apple's "Strictly controlled interface between groups on a need to know basis" and Amazon's "All teams will henceforth expose their data and functionality through service interfaces. Teams must communicate with each other through these interfaces."

I'm guessing most companies have a more leaky abstraction approach

https://gist.github.com/kislayverma/d48b84db1ac5d737715e8319...

Re: How Apple overcame its culture of secrecy to create AirPods Pro

#58

Post by kanbara »

skuhn wrote: post #21

I worked at Apple relatively briefly, in a lead role on an Important Project that required its own form to be disclosed on it (besides the general agreement you sign to begin employment). A truly toxic work environment that I couldn't get out of fast enough once I shipped the project. All kinds of projects at Apple have their own disclosure forms, and you are only given one to sign if it's deemed necessary to your wo…

lots of stuff isn't disclosed that isn't important. sure some things may be secret or require that not everyone can be added but that's the same as top secret projects.

it's not toxic in and of itself. i think there are a lot of toxic teams but not every team and not every org are that way. if you can't get disclosed on something that you manage then you have some toxic issues but i wouldn't shit on the entire concept because of that, i would question why the org and company are that way as a whole and fix the root issues

Re: How Apple overcame its culture of secrecy to create AirPods Pro

#59

Post by wheresmycraisin »

serenitylater wrote: post #46
AlotOfReading wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's aggravating for sure. I've cancelled interviews with them before because they couldn't confirm that I was actually interviewing for the team and product I knew I was interviewing for. The secrecy often crosses the line into silly and even disrespectful.

For real, was it their self driving division? The faux secrecy in that was astounding. Like everyone knows what is going on here just tell that the computer vision machine learning job focused on high definition video and LiDAR data is for the car, we both know it’s for the car.

I assumed I was interviewing for the self driving car because it was rumored back then, and then the secrecy might make sense. Also it's good for my ego lol. Then I asked a friend that works for them about it years later and she said apple is secretive about any position... I could've been interviewing for a help desk position in the cafe for all I know.

Re: How Apple overcame its culture of secrecy to create AirPods Pro

#60

Post by kanbara »

vlovich123 wrote: post #28

> He said it was so bad that engineers didn’t even know who they could and couldn’t talk to about their work. This sounds off. When I worked there 7 years ago there was an internal website where you punch in the person’s name and it tells you about all the mutual disclosures you have. I would expect it’s integrated into Directory by now. Also, I don’t recall AirPods development as being particularly more open conside…

not in directory, but slack, meetings, and all sorts of shit integrate. you can see anyone who has disclosures you have and also use the site. it's not a big deal, and you don't want everyone to have access to every project. idk why people think it's difficult
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