Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#51

Post by imgabe » Tue, May 03, 2022, 2:37 PM UTC

adamsmith143 wrote: post #34

PabloRobles wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you, please, give your point of view on it? This is something I never thought about.

Is it really hard to imagine that it's easier to get to the office as an able bodied 22 year old than as a 45 year old wheelchair user? Or a 31 year old single parent?

Is it really hard to imagine that it’s easier to afford a comfortable vehicle to commute in, not to mention housing with a shorter commute, as a 45 year old senior manager than as a 22 year old just starting out with significant college debt?

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#52

Post by chc » Tue, May 03, 2022, 2:37 PM UTC

arrakis2021 wrote: post #44

daniel-thompson wrote: post #41

> CEO Tim Cook called in-person collaboration benefits "irreplaceable" and in an email, the executive team talked about the importance of "the serendipity that comes from bumping into colleagues" during in-person work. Another extroverted MBA who doesn't understand why many engineers need big, unbroken chunks of silence & concentration to do great work.

Another engineer that doesn’t understand there are more jobs in a business than engineering. I say this as someone who works from home and is a huge WFH advocate. We need to stop assuming every role in an org revolves around “I stare at my screen for 9 hours do not interrupt me.”

I don't think they're trying to forcd those people who work better in an office to work from home, are they?

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#53

Post by chadash » Tue, May 03, 2022, 2:37 PM UTC

People want to have their cake and eat it too. Silicon Valley companies pay very well because cost of living is very high in the area and they _need_ to pay well to attract talent in that area. If remote work becomes the norm, pay will start to even out across the country. If you live in a place that didn't pay well before, you'll be better off, but if you live in a high cost of work area, you'll probably be worse off. It's just an inevitable truth of how the market functions.... maybe your company says they'll keep salaries the same no matter where you work, but let's see how that plays out in ten years from now.

To that end, 2 days a week in office seems like a great compromise. Personally, I wouldn't want a long commute to work, so I'd pay a lot to be near my office if I'm going in 5 days a week, but for 2 days a week, I'd have much less problem with say a 1 to 1.5 hour-each-way commute, which drastically opens up options for where I can live. And by requiring people to live in the area, these companies will still need to pay competitive salaries for that area, so this seems like a pretty good compromise.

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#54

Post by loudthing » Tue, May 03, 2022, 2:38 PM UTC

Unfortunately the folks that get to make these decisions are so removed from the reality of their company's every day tasks that all they can think is "if I don't see butts in the seats I bought, then obviously no work is getting done".

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#55

Post by TigeriusKirk » Tue, May 03, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

nimbius wrote: post #50

In other words: We blew five billion dollars on Apple Park. its a monument and a testament to the ineffable power and glory of our babel made manifest. You will attend this church of man in blessed reverence or you will find the cold streets at your feet.

Happily, the streets are quite hot right now.

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#56

Post by 0daystock » Tue, May 03, 2022, 2:40 PM UTC

Cuuugi wrote: post #14

and will lead to a "younger, whiter, more male-dominated, more neuro-normative, more able-bodied" I mean, they're just asking you to come to the building 3 days a week.

Yet they fail to explain why that's a "bad" thing.

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#57

Post by prewett » Tue, May 03, 2022, 2:41 PM UTC

dubya wrote: post #35

t-writescode wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The first time you have an argument with your spouse, you should get a divorce” Is what you’re saying here. They’re trying to make company changes to improve their relationship with someone they like to work for, without using the nuclear option.

I wonder how many marriages have been saved by an open letter.

The GP's metaphor of a marriage is not applicable in this case, since a marriage is a friendship/partnership, and the corporate structure is essentially a kingdom. Options are limited if the king and his advisors aren't listening, or they listened and rejected the approach for whatever their reasons are. An open letter to the king probably won't change anything, but worth a try before emigrating.

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#58

Post by turtledove » Tue, May 03, 2022, 2:41 PM UTC

chadash wrote: post #53

People want to have their cake and eat it too. Silicon Valley companies pay very well because cost of living is very high in the area and they _need_ to pay well to attract talent in that area. If remote work becomes the norm, pay will start to even out across the country. If you live in a place that didn't pay well before, you'll be better off, but if you live in a high cost of work area, you'll probably be worse of…

They pay well because demand for engineers is high. Cost of living is high because engineers have bought all the stock in the area.

You've got the order backwards.

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#59

Post by vmception » Tue, May 03, 2022, 2:42 PM UTC

chadash wrote: post #53

People want to have their cake and eat it too. Silicon Valley companies pay very well because cost of living is very high in the area and they _need_ to pay well to attract talent in that area. If remote work becomes the norm, pay will start to even out across the country. If you live in a place that didn't pay well before, you'll be better off, but if you live in a high cost of work area, you'll probably be worse of…

No post body was provided.

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#60

Post by scarface74 » Tue, May 03, 2022, 2:43 PM UTC

t-writescode wrote: post #24

tharne wrote: post #16

Stop whining and vote with your feet. If you're talented enough to work for Apple, there are plenty of other wonderful companies out there that will happily let you work remotely. Not every company needs to have the exact same policies on everything.

“The first time you have an argument with your spouse, you should get a divorce” Is what you’re saying here. They’re trying to make company changes to improve their relationship with someone they like to work for, without using the nuclear option.

I go to work because I like exchanging labor for money. The marriage analogy is kind of crazy.

I’ve had eight jobs in my 25 years as an adult. It never took me more than two months to find a job I was happy with. It took me 15 years and one failed marriage to find a a spouse I was happy with.

When I have a disagreement with my wife, we compromise as equal partners. I’m not in any way an equal partner to the CEO of a 2 trillion+ dollar company.

Leaving my marriage necessitated lawyers, going to court, and giving up half of everything we accumulated together. Leaving a job required a form resignation letter with meaningless platitudes and a two week notice.