Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships • Hacker News Board

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#51

Post by gbear605 » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:04 PM UTC

caffeine wrote: post #34

edmundsauto wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there have been budget cuts, the US Navy’s budget went from ~80B in 2001 to over 160B today. Given what the US spends as a % of GDP, it feels like this should be more than enough. From afar, the problem appears to be decision makers in the Navy refusing to reduce scope and deciding to understaff.

I think that’s not keeping up with inflation over the same period?

There’s only been about 60% inflation since 2001, so assuming the above numbers are correct then that’s outpacing inflation.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#52

Post by enkid » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:08 PM UTC

edmundsauto wrote: post #26

Victerius wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manning problems have existed for a decade, if not more. The Navy holds the sad record of being the worst managed branch of service. Steep budget cuts in the 1990s and again during sequestration have had severe effects that the Navy hasn't yet recovered from. But I don't know whether that's the cause of the problem. The Navy is an especially unique branch given that it's the only service that revolves around a relati…

While there have been budget cuts, the US Navy’s budget went from ~80B in 2001 to over 160B today. Given what the US spends as a % of GDP, it feels like this should be more than enough. From afar, the problem appears to be decision makers in the Navy refusing to reduce scope and deciding to understaff.

Part of the problem is that the Navy can't reduce it's scope. Congress sets in law a lot of requirements. For example, the Navy has to have 11 large aircraft carriers, which is more than the rest of the world combined. This led to shell games when the Ford was behind in construction and doesn't allow the Navy to look at alternate force constructs such as more smaller carriers or focusing more on subs. Congress does this with all the branches, just look at why A-10s are still flying or the Abrams are still being built at like two a year. Now, this isn't always a bad thing. The services have not always done a great job transitioning to new technology, and have messed up their financing so bad they can't pass an audit, so a little extra oversight does make sense.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#53

Post by Jowsey » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:08 PM UTC

Rust-free? That doesn't sound very safe

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#54

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:09 PM UTC

Simplicitas wrote: post #40

How about reducing the Navy budget because current spending is beyond wasteful for equipment that's hardly used since wars are becoming so rare. For the minimum set of future ships, sure, lets look for technology that'll save tax-payers money.

[deleted]

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#55

Post by orzig » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:09 PM UTC

caffeine wrote: post #34

edmundsauto wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there have been budget cuts, the US Navy’s budget went from ~80B in 2001 to over 160B today. Given what the US spends as a % of GDP, it feels like this should be more than enough. From afar, the problem appears to be decision makers in the Navy refusing to reduce scope and deciding to understaff.

I think that’s not keeping up with inflation over the same period?

Trying to gently improve public discourse, I’d suggest that we don’t need to speculate when something is so easy to look up:

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=%24160B+in+2022+convert...

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#56

Post by enkid » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:10 PM UTC

boomboomsubban wrote: post #42

Wouldn't decommissioning solve these problems far better than building more new ships? Strange that is never a solution suggested by the navy.

The Navy is trying to decomission ships faster than normal right now.

  https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2022/04/04/us-navy-reveals-ships-facing-potential-decommissioning-next-year/

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#57

Post by jwmhjwmh » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:10 PM UTC

No post body was provided.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#58

Post by jeffrallen » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:11 PM UTC

boomboomsubban wrote: post #42

Wouldn't decommissioning solve these problems far better than building more new ships? Strange that is never a solution suggested by the navy.

The second a steel ship leaves the shipyard it is rusting. This is not about old rusty ships, it's about the normal routine maintenance that all steel ships require, and the Navy's seeming inability to do it.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#59

Post by jeffrallen » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:12 PM UTC

Jowsey wrote: post #53

Rust-free? That doesn't sound very safe

But at least their compile times would go down.

Re: Top navy admiral wants rust-free ships

#60

Post by CyanBird » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:14 PM UTC

donthellbanme wrote: post #10

" If crews can’t use new types of paint, If crews are restricted from using OSPHO (a mild acid used to clean up rust stains) in port or bosuns chairs over the side if we don’t have enough supply ships or crew on those supply ships if crews are committing suicide and arson because of conditions at shipyards tasked with painting old ships if the Navy doesn’t seek out the advice of commercial professionals at companies…

> 1. I hope I'm reading this wrong. I can guarantee Sailors arn't committing suicide, or arson, because of a fugly rusty ship.

Sad to see that HN discussions stow so low so as to not discuss the things the piece actually mentions

> The situation is not much better for American shipyards. On the morning of April 11, Captain Brent Gaut, the commander of the USS George Washington — an aircraft carrier undergoing major shipyard work at Newport News, Virginia — got on the ship’s intercom to announce that two sailors had died, and Gaut was alerting the crew that those deaths were the eighth and ninth suicides the ship had experienced in the nine months the ship has been stuck in shipyard. What was the Navy’s response? Gilday’s top enlisted adviser, Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy Russell Smith, told sailors they need to do a better job “managing expectations” then he chastised them by saying “What you’re not doing is sleeping in a foxhole like a Marine.”

> This type of “toughen up, stand up” approach sounds eerily familiar to those of us who worked offshore in the years leading up to the Deepwater Horizon catastrophe.

> In 2020, while undergoing shipyard repair in San Diego, conditions aboard the USS Bonhomme Richard were so bad a crew member set fire to the ship leading to the ship’s destruction. The responsible crew member was arrested but – despite investigators finding bad morale, delays, and poor training – the ship’s captain (and his chain of command) was left in charge and was allowed to celebrate the decommissioning of the ship he had lost.

Please, next time just review the piece