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Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

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Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#51

Post by LAC-Tech »

thr0waway001 wrote: post #22
altdataseller wrote: post #4

Does being attractive really help you in getting hired in engineering positions? I would understand client-facing/sales jobs, but unsure it would help in engineering roles

I'd argue it can hinder sometimes. I hate to say it but it probably depends on the gender. What I will say is anecdotal and probably controversial but it is just my observation: I've seen all kinds of talented male devs and there's huge variance in their looks. Some good looking and some not. But when it comes to talented female devs: they all looked a certain type. I'll let you people decide what I mean. Yes, profil…

> But when it comes to talented female devs: they all looked a certain type. I'll let you people decide what I mean.

It's a throw away account, can you just say what you mean? Honestly no type came to mind when I did a quick mental scrollback.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#52

Post by elptacek »

And there it is, the one thing I can never have an honest conversation about. The rules are different for ugly people, based on my personal experience as one data point. We're the last lot that everyone can discriminate against, or abuse, and get away with it.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#53

Post by brimble »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #51
thr0waway001 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue it can hinder sometimes. I hate to say it but it probably depends on the gender. What I will say is anecdotal and probably controversial but it is just my observation: I've seen all kinds of talented male devs and there's huge variance in their looks. Some good looking and some not. But when it comes to talented female devs: they all looked a certain type. I'll let you people decide what I mean. Yes, profil…

> But when it comes to talented female devs: they all looked a certain type. I'll let you people decide what I mean. It's a throw away account, can you just say what you mean? Honestly no type came to mind when I did a quick mental scrollback.

Not the parent, but I assume they mean the nose stud, green or blue hair that looks like it's needed to be redone for a month (but was, in fact, dyed yesterday), and at least one full-sleeve tattoo, look.

[EDIT] For the record, I've seen women with that look who weren't very good, and I've seen plenty who looked different from that who were good. I don't agree with their broader assessment.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#54

Post by rybosome »

altdataseller wrote: post #4

Does being attractive really help you in getting hired in engineering positions? I would understand client-facing/sales jobs, but unsure it would help in engineering roles

Being attractive helps you in everything. Humans have a fundamental positive bias towards those they perceive as attractive.

At the risk of sounding arrogant, let me share my personal experience. Over a period of a year in my early thirties, I became more conventionally attractive by: purchasing clothes from StitchFix (a styling service), getting my hair cut regularly by a stylist, adopting a regular grooming routine, and exercising (especially weight lifting) frequently. Prior to this I dressed like a negatively stereotypical engineer with baggy/unstylish clothing, little to no grooming routine, and little to no exercise.

People of all sexes and sexual orientations unquestionably treat me better than they did before. They are more open, more willing to give me their time and attention, quicker to trust me. I’m given favors like extra services (a barista telling me I can cut the line and give her my order directly), or small free things (bartender comping a drink for no reason). And frankly, people just look at me more. I used to feel completely invisible walking down the street, never catching anyone’s eye - not the case anymore.

Because the change happened over a relatively short period of time, and because I spent my entire adult life prior not engaging in these intentional efforts to be “attractive”, the contrast was extremely obvious.

There is a dark side to all this that I’m not going to get into, but I will say that having experienced the contrast I do feel motivated to maintain some level of attractiveness for the preferential treatment.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#55

Post by [deleted] »

maxk42 wrote: post #34

I'm going to buck the trend and say that candidates with attractive photos are quite possibly actually more competent. When hiring, I consider the content of a resume and not its aesthetics. But the people who go the extra mile to add polish: An attractive, well-formatted resume; being well-dressed for an interview; and even adding polish to a photo - are likely candidates who express the added attention to detail I'…

[deleted]

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#56

Post by thaumasiotes »

dwater wrote: post #19
ErikVandeWater wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if in predominantly black countries, darkening the skin tones of white applicants would be considered beautifying.

Generally, European colonizers imported their anti-dark skin biases (colourism) to their African colonies and they persist to this day among the black populations. https://www.e-ir.info/2020/04/11/critical-reflections-on-eth...

> and they persist to this day among the black populations.

Well, light skin preference for females persists to this day in African populations and every other population.

It was also present -- and documented even in Africa -- before any European presence existed, so it's strange to say that Europeans imported it. And darker skin is usually preferred for men.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#57

Post by dijonman2 »

sjhuang26 wrote: post #44
maxk42 wrote: post #34

I'm going to buck the trend and say that candidates with attractive photos are quite possibly actually more competent. When hiring, I consider the content of a resume and not its aesthetics. But the people who go the extra mile to add polish: An attractive, well-formatted resume; being well-dressed for an interview; and even adding polish to a photo - are likely candidates who express the added attention to detail I'…

Perhaps the "polish" of the resume is a signal for "professionalism and attention to detail." But I worry that the professionalism of the resume is a signal mostly for wealth and social status, factors which should be ignored in the hiring process. So I think that unless the resume is atrociously formatted, its "polish" should be ignored. I read an article on LinkedIn [1] touching on a similar issue. The ideal resume…

> But I worry that the professionalism of the resume is a signal mostly for wealth and social status

What?

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#58

Post by HarryHirsch »

BoorishBears wrote: post #18
mdoms wrote: post #12

> In study 2, beautifying filters increased the hireability only slightly for White female applicants, followed by White and Black male applicants but substantially for Black female applicants It's a gross thing to consider but I wonder if the filter lightened the skin of black female applicants. These results are disappointing but unfortunately not surprising.

I remember stumbling across a "beauty rating" site that had an ML model trained to rate photos on beauty. At the risk of sounding conceited, when it gave me (black male) a bad score, I knew something had to be wrong. I went and searched for photos of famous black males generally accepted as attractive and noticed it also gave them poor scores. That gave me a hunch about what was going on, and lo and behold: taking th…

ML models are... very local. They fail at sensemaking. If it's any comfort, the same model would probably identify President Mobutu as a leopard.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#59

Post by Izkata »

oh_sigh wrote: post #11
altdataseller wrote: post #4

Does being attractive really help you in getting hired in engineering positions? I would understand client-facing/sales jobs, but unsure it would help in engineering roles

I don't think it is a bad question to ask. In fact, there might even be negative biases against attractiveness for engineers. Will a dude with cheeto dust on his star wars t-shirt give a fair shake to a good looking woman who is wearing business attire and makeup, compared to another dude in a t-shirt? Let's do a test. Who would you imagine is the better engineer of these two old timey people? https://i.imgur.com/omR…

IMO the second one doesn't look old-timey, just stylish.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#60

Post by dzhiurgis »

projektfu wrote: post #16

When I was in England for a short time I was tasked with screening candidates for employment (software engineers). As an American, I was taken aback by most of the resumes including photos. That's just not done here in the US. Some American HR departments might even send back your resume and ask you to resubmit it without a photo. It seems to be standard practice in Europe, perhaps to convince you that the person int…

With or without, tons of companies will do "due diligence" and will look for your FB and Insta feeds, just in case you are drunk or drugged or whatever might seem inappropriate. Kinda creepy to go such lengths, but also some companies don't want people not smart enough to not post their shenanigans publicly.
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