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Why Finland’s schools are great (by doing what we don’t).

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Why Finland’s schools are great (by doing what we don’t).

#51

Post by InclinedPlane »

lukeschlather wrote: post #20
forkandwait wrote: post #3

Here is my worthless .02c: One sure way to know you have failed at managing a process is when you measure employee performance by their adherence to rules rather than their record on delivering results . NCLB is all about rules... ... as are most US institutions, public and private.... It isn't that rules and standardized processes don't have their place, but (1) if rules have to be enforced regularly, you have total…

There are a lot of people bouncing around ideas about how we can magically improve the U.S. school system, but I think fundamentally the problem is that we expect unreasonable results. We want to be able to pay $5000/pupil/year for a quality of education that properly costs at least $10,000 if not $15,000.

There is little correlation in the US between per pupil spending and academic results. More so, increasingly public school expenditures are going not to teachers and basic supplies but administrative staff. The problem is not that we aren't spending enough money. The problem is that we aren't spending money on the right things.

Re: Why Finland’s schools are great (by doing what we don’t).

#52

Post by arkx »

mushishi wrote: post #30

As a Finn, I restrain myself comparing us to others but I just want to say that most schools here are not well suited for non-superficial learning. I would hope the future brings a system that is driven by the need of individual pupil and by her potential and interests rather than giving equivalent, non-inspiring curriculum for all. Also, learning should have more meaningfulness in it; something along the lines of wh…

You seem to mainly address universities, which were out of scope for this article. OECD PISA is measuring 15-year-old students. There is a huge difference in the level of teaching at compulsory schools and universities in Finland.

"People are not much interested in learning in schools" is a gross overstatement and generalization. There are those who are very motivated, those who are not motivated at all and the majority who fall somewhere in between. I saw firsthand how even the least motivated students were engaged by one really good biology teacher. Everyone was interested when the teacher did his job well. On the other hand, with terrible teachers even the best students tended to zone out. I imagine this is the same everywhere in the world.

As for the needs of individual pupils, I couldn't agree more. When I first entered school I already knew how to read and add numbers together. I was not allowed to progress at my own pace, and subsequently got really, really bored twiddling my thumbs during those first few years.

I think this catering to the lowest common denominator and lack of individual care is something that the Finnish school system really suffers from. Sadly with all these articles out many observers seem to think the Finnish school system is infallible, and they're only aiming at replicating the success of Finnish schools instead of thinking how to do even better.

Re: Why Finland’s schools are great (by doing what we don’t).

#53

Post by dorian-graph »

henrikschroder wrote: post #49
wisty wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, Finns speak a Finnish, a Finno-Ugric language, which is said to be really easy to learn. It's phonetic, and technical words tend to be built out of simple Finnish words, not a weird mash of Latin, Greek, and other words. This makes it easy to do sciences, as you don't have to teach as much wacky vocabulary. (Note, I don't speak Finish, this is just what I've read). I've also heard that Lithuanians (who also spe…

The only part of education where the language matters is when it comes to spelling, and the key factor there is the distance between the spoken language and the written language. In Finnish, these are close, i.e. words are spelled "as they sound", the rules are simple and consistent and there are few special cases, and as a result Finnish children have a much easier time learning how to spell compared to Danish or En…

You don't consider language important in conveying ideas, thinking, etc?

Re: Why Finland’s schools are great (by doing what we don’t).

#54

Post by mbyrne »

Osiris wrote: post #2

This article contrasts well with the failure of No Child Left Behind in the U.S. That program has failed to deliver any statistically significant impact on the skills and knowledge of students. What is has done is pushed teachers towards teaching the test rather than teaching critical thinking. Standardized tests are multiple-choice questions and don't leave room for critical thinking, or help demonstration how a chi…

If you say No Child Left Behind pushed teachers to teach to a test (easy) rather than teaching critical thinking, etc. (hard) and then you say No Child Left Behind failed to deliver any statistically significant impact on test scores, aren't you just saying teachers can't even teach the easy stuff?

How do you think they can teach the hard stuff if they can't even move the needle on the easy things (in this scenario of yours)?

Re: Why Finland’s schools are great (by doing what we don’t).

#55

Post by yardie »

temphn wrote: post #8

Finland's schools are great because they are full of Finns, in the same way that schools with many Finns in the US do very well. Hong Kong and Singapore's schools are great because they are full of Chinese, in the same way that schools with many Chinese in the US do very well, even in poor neighborhoods: http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jul/16/local/me-lincoln16 To begin with, the eight students agreed on a few gener…

Afro-caribbean and first generation American chiming in here. I can assure you it is a cultural and institutional racism here. Being colleagues with other 1st generation Ghanaians, Nigerians, Haitians, and Jamaicans it is a recurring issue amongst the black community. Where 1st gen children who keep their culture of origin do well academically (if their culture demands it) but subsequent generations absorb more of the african-american culture which shuns academia. An example, my neighborhood highschool had enough left in the annual budget to fix the leaking roof in the science wing. The parents petitioned the schoolboard to have the money used to buy new football bleachers. This is the type of culture the students and teachers are up against.

The US has a long, and controversial, history with genetics and eugenics research. Most researchers have been wise to avoid it because, realistically, it is a career ender. Unless you enjoy your research being lumped in with propaganda spouted by racist and facist you'd be wise to not go there.

Re: Why Finland’s schools are great (by doing what we don’t).

#56

Post by 0x12 »

tuukkah wrote: post #13
kiba wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think that people in Singapore and South Korea considers education very important and thus students in these countries try very hard to get really good grade.

Whereas in Finland students don't appreciate their top-of-the-notch, free education. According to research, they feel negative about the school and the teachers, they are unmotivated, they underperform and they have mental health problems. Makes their test results doubly impressive, I would say, and shows that there's still room for a lot of improvement in the world of education.

You can lead a horse to water but you can not make it drink.

Without the water the horse dies for sure, with the water at least it stands a chance.

If those students are that unmotivated then that's one more feather in the cap of the teachers that they hold on to what they are doing in spite of such resistance.

Re: Why Finland’s schools are great (by doing what we don’t).

#57

Post by yzhengyu »

tuukkah wrote: post #13
kiba wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think that people in Singapore and South Korea considers education very important and thus students in these countries try very hard to get really good grade.

Whereas in Finland students don't appreciate their top-of-the-notch, free education. According to research, they feel negative about the school and the teachers, they are unmotivated, they underperform and they have mental health problems. Makes their test results doubly impressive, I would say, and shows that there's still room for a lot of improvement in the world of education.

Ironically, I greatly admire the Finnish system. They got something very, very correct if their teachers can get a bunch of "unmotivated Finnish children and teenagers" to score so well in so many exams.

As a Singaporean, I would amend the original statement to say 'we treat our schooling very seriously'. But, yes, we do treat our academics very seriously - in fact, I personally believe we take it too seriously to the point of obsession.

Re: Why Finland’s schools are great (by doing what we don’t).

#58

Post by nhebb »

Abundnce10 wrote: post #35

I taught English in the public school system in South Korea last year. There were a few stark differences that I couldn't help but notice and I feel they shed light on our failing education system here in America. They have a curriculum that is set forth on a national level. This accomplishes two important things: One, teachers can now collaborate and share resources on topics that all teachers around the country are…

I've always wondered why the US has a Department of Education but it doesn't produce a national curriculum. It's mission isn't directly tied to teaching itself [1]. Looking at the rise of sites like the Khan Academy and other services, it seems clear to me that content creation and delivery of core subjects could be centralized, and tutoring, homework, testing, and assessment could be localized. I know that would threaten some politically powerful interest groups (teacher unions and publishers), but I think it's a logical progression if we want to provide students across the country the same learning materials.

[1] http://www2.ed.gov/about/what-we-do.html

Re: Why Finland’s schools are great (by doing what we don’t).

#59

Post by SNK »

"Finnish educators were astonished ... made no sense to them... surprised ... did not understand the idea ... can’t understand ... don’t make sense to them. Nor do they understand ...."

Ignorance and stupidity are nothing to be proud of. Disagreeing with us is one thing - they could be right. Willful disingenuous bug-eyed goggling is something else altogether.

Re: Why Finland’s schools are great (by doing what we don’t).

#60

Post by nhebb »

It's funny that the article starts off criticizing standardized testing but immediately turns to international standardized test results (PISA) as the foundation for the rest of the article. It could well be that Finland has a better educational system, but - playing devil's advocate here - how do we know that it's not just (inadvertently) optimized for the PISA?
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