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Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

theatlantic.com

51–60 of 106 posts

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#51
This paragraph is quite interesting:

Years later Richard Ledgett, who oversaw the NSA’s media-leaks task force and went on to become the agency’s deputy director, told me matter-of-factly to assume that my defenses had been breached. “My take is, whatever you guys had was pretty immediately in the hands of any foreign intelligence service that wanted it,” he said, “whether it was Russians, Chinese, French, the Israelis, the Brits. Between you, Poitras, and Greenwald, pretty sure you guys can’t stand up to a full-fledged nation-state attempt to exploit your IT. To include not just remote stuff, but hands-on, sneak-into-your-house-at-night kind of stuff. That’s my guess.” Because I’d been one of Snowden’s principal interlocutors, Ledgett told me he was sure there was “a nice dossier” on me in both Russia and China.

It comes off to me as fear mongering and an attempt to dissuade any future involvement with such sensitive materials. An understandable approach from someone with the specified role. However, it just sounds so defeatist given how much of the article up to that point had detailed the layers of effort that had gone into avoiding exactly that.

It also means that the NSA is capable of that as well: they've got it before you even realise what it is that you've got.

Any of James Clapper's words must be filtered through his laser-focused tunnel vision; black and white, good and bad, scorched earth for middle ground. ie. discard it, but be aware that's how those people view the world, and therefore that's what you'll be up against if you step into the ring. Zealots. Cattle to be protected by the Dogs from the Wolves, and into those three categories fit all.

I don't like it much, and find it difficult to relate to, but they couldn't do the important stuff that they do if they didn't have that attitude. But that's exactly why "congress", or whoever the appropriate leash-holders are, need to yoink on the leash every now and then, rather than letting it out for two straight decades.

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#52
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are they having zoom chats with Putin, and he's telling them what to tweet/say, and then they are doing exactly as he directs? would that be enough to convince you?

Yes, that would be, as that would align with my fuzzy idea of someone being a 'puppet' for someone else. To repeat my question one last time of how you determine the 'Putin puppetness' of someone: > I'm assuming that being critical of the US military & security complex is your evidence of being a puppet for Putin? Since Putin also is critical of the US military & security complex, therefore criticizing the US = puppe…

No post body was provided.

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still strikes me as cowardly since the program was/is grossly unconstitutional. And I think Snowden has proven the constitution can survive the disclosure that the government had an illegal, poorly overseen dragnet. Clapper is ultimately responsible for what is considered classified. Feels like circular logic to say he was forced to lie to the public and non-committee representatives about things he had authority to…

It’s fair to criticize the whole US intelligence establishment (and their congressional overseers, and every president of both parties for the past 40+ years) without thinking that Clapper should be personally criminally liable for following standard practice here. * * * While we are talking about cowardly though, why has Edward Snowden, president of the Freedom of the Press Foundation (!), neither said anything publ…

I think it's pretty obvious why. He's between a rock and a hard place. He was not beyond the reach of the US on allegations of spying releasing government secrets and a whole bunch of other laws he broke in order to become a whistleblower against the government's illicit programs --the only place which provided him refuge was Russia. No one else would take him. What do you expect, that he bite the cruel hand that feeds him? Be realistic.

PS. that's a very unwarranted swipe. Might as well request Obama to turn in his Nobel Peace Prize speaking of incongruencies.

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#54
post #20

"SINCE I MET EDWARD SNOWDEN, I’VE NEVER STOPPED WATCHING MY BACK" That is the title of the article when I click the link. (Caps and all came through in copy-paste). Where is this "Espionage or Journalism" coming from? Are there different titles shown to different viewers?

The page title is "Espionage or Journalism..."

from au, ctrl+f suggests that "Espionage or Journalism" is nowhere on the page..?

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#55

I wonder what Snowden thinks of having to live in Russia now with the war in Ukraine. It must be a little awkward.

He appears to have went off the grid over the last 2 months. I imagine it's a very tumultuous time for him. Russia knows the US really wants to extradite him, and there will inevitably be rounds of negotiations as time moves forward. He may be a potential negotiating piece if the Russians are looking for concessions from Ukraine/NATO. (this is all speculation, but he has went dark)

he went off the grid because he had to choose between his safety or his public image/career. he wisely chose the former.

last tweet feb 27th

https://mobile.twitter.com/Snowden/status/149804957713120870...

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#56

I wonder what Snowden thinks of having to live in Russia now with the war in Ukraine. It must be a little awkward.

He appears to have went off the grid over the last 2 months. I imagine it's a very tumultuous time for him. Russia knows the US really wants to extradite him, and there will inevitably be rounds of negotiations as time moves forward. He may be a potential negotiating piece if the Russians are looking for concessions from Ukraine/NATO. (this is all speculation, but he has went dark)

> He appears to have went off the grid over the last 2 months.

He really blew his credibility pushing the “Russia isn’t going to attack” propaganda line (ostensibly, as his own independent analysis of the situation), and his last tweet (3 days after the attack, his prior being 3 days before) was:

“I’m not suspended from the ceiling above a barrel of acid by a rope that burns a little faster every time I tweet, you concern-trolling ghouls. I’ve just lost any confidence I had that sharing my thinking on this particular topic continues to be useful, because I called it wrong.”

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s a Quora answer from someone in the US intel community, explaining why this was not “perjury” despite being misleading to the public watching the hearing: https://www.quora.com/Why-wasnt-James-Clapper-convicted-for-... > This claim that Clapper lied before Congress has an interesting mix of supporters—some people on the far left who view Clapper as some part of a nefarious intelligence state out to spy on all o…

Still strikes me as cowardly since the program was/is grossly unconstitutional. And I think Snowden has proven the constitution can survive the disclosure that the government had an illegal, poorly overseen dragnet. Clapper is ultimately responsible for what is considered classified. Feels like circular logic to say he was forced to lie to the public and non-committee representatives about things he had authority to…

Yes, exactly. It was an illegal program and instead of denouncing a grossly illegal program he sought to protect it through procedural means.

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He appears to have went off the grid over the last 2 months. I imagine it's a very tumultuous time for him. Russia knows the US really wants to extradite him, and there will inevitably be rounds of negotiations as time moves forward. He may be a potential negotiating piece if the Russians are looking for concessions from Ukraine/NATO. (this is all speculation, but he has went dark)

he went off the grid because he had to choose between his safety or his public image/career. he wisely chose the former. last tweet feb 27th https://mobile.twitter.com/Snowden/status/149804957713120870...

> he went off the grid because he had to choose between his safety or his public image/career.

It is kind of weird that you suggest that (not, on its own, an implausible guess) and link to the tweet where he rather angrily denies exactly that characterization as support.

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The story is about whether Gellman was a spy like many in the intelligence community including Clapper claim he is. It's about his works with Snowden's documents, not Snowden himself.

What I don't understand is why Clapper wasn't at the very least charged with perjury for lying to Congress under oath. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/5-people-who-lied-...

> What I don’t understand is why Clapper wasn’t at the very least charged with perjury for lying to Congress under oath.

What I don’t understand is why Clapper has to settle with merely “not being charged with perjury” while Brett Kavanaugh not only wasn’t charged with perjury, and continued in government service (in a position he got through his perjury) when his lies were established, but got promoted to the Supreme Court (note, I’m referring to his blatant lies about his involvement with the Bush-era torture program during his Court of Appeals confirmation hearing, not any perjury he may have committed during his Supreme Court confirmation hearings.)

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#60

Shouldn't the title be "Espionage or Whistleblowing?" Journalism would just be reporting on the events. For example, Daniel Ellsberg, leaking Pentagon Papers - basically everyone now agrees that was legitimate whistleblowing as it proved leading government figures were lying through their teeth to the American public about the reality on the ground in Vietnam. In contrast, Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen were CIA and…

For example, Daniel Ellsberg, leaking Pentagon Papers - basically everyone now agrees that was legitimate whistleblowing as it proved leading government figures were lying through their teeth to the American public about the reality on the ground in Vietnam. In contrast, Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen were CIA and FBI employees who sold all kinds of secrets to the Soviet Union for several decades - pretty sure we ca…

He wasn't let off. They knew they could not convict him.

Now they have things sewed up better. Pliant judges, extortion, secret charges, secret "evidence", secret "testimony".

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