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Is growth linear, not exponential?

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51–60 of 79 posts

Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?

#51
post #28

It's almost certainly exponential, but the rate of growth depends on a number of dynamic factors. Corrupt elites often shut growth down. It happened in China and Japan several times in the second millennium, and it's happening in the US in the third one; we've backslid since about 1970.

> Corrupt elites often shut growth down.

Yeah so that's oncologists for one, suppose I go to Cuba to a real doctor the likes of which cannot be found in America and get treated for cancer. That's precisely what I want is for that doctor to shut the growth of the tumor down, be a corrupt elite to that tumor, tell it the show's over. It's part of my body like the runaway growth thing is part of the economy, but if either growth is harming its surrounding environment, taking up resources or pushing things out, forget it. Tumor repression, oppression and suppression, all three!

Exponential growth is too unstable, it can't go on forever. If it had taken place since before the Middle Ages, or any other dark age, like it would be too stupid everyone would either own or owe a galaxy. It's not just that's too much, it's also that would be a highly stupid premise for a life to be born into. So it's marketed like "hey we'd all be rich" but come on, for there to be credit there has to be debt, no creditors without debtors. In these fantasies they never talk about who'd be the debtor, but here's a hint, between the speaker talking about we are all going to be too rich for sins to matter, and the listeners, it's not the speaker.

Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?

#52
post #35
post #28

It's almost certainly exponential, but the rate of growth depends on a number of dynamic factors. Corrupt elites often shut growth down. It happened in China and Japan several times in the second millennium, and it's happening in the US in the third one; we've backslid since about 1970.

That first sentence could replace the entire paper. Growth functions are inherently/fundamentally exponential (regardless of whether we're talking about bacterial colonies, populations of rabbits, compound interest or ROI), but the forces that act on the exponent change over time. It really is this simple.

That's not really true though. Regardless of whether our growth is exponential or logistic, we haven't hit an inflection point yet. So if the past data is better fit by a linear function, the logistic nature of our growth can't be the reason.

Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?

#53

Can’t you model almost anything as a piecewise linear function? I don’t know if this claim is saying much of substance.

Yes, but if your data is actually exponential, the linear segments are not going to be better approximations than an exponential curve. That's what's going on here

With noise and enough segments, the linear functions can certainly fit better.

Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?

#54
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but if your data is actually exponential, the linear segments are not going to be better approximations than an exponential curve. That's what's going on here

The dangerous bit is that an exponential curve will also be a fairly good fit for a logistic function that's not yet fully observed.

Yes, and the one thing you expect on a logistic function is arguments about whether it's linear or exponential.

But with the amount of noise in economical data, I don't think is evidence of anything.

Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?

#55
post #28

It's almost certainly exponential, but the rate of growth depends on a number of dynamic factors. Corrupt elites often shut growth down. It happened in China and Japan several times in the second millennium, and it's happening in the US in the third one; we've backslid since about 1970.

> Corrupt elites often shut growth down. Yeah so that's oncologists for one, suppose I go to Cuba to a real doctor the likes of which cannot be found in America and get treated for cancer. That's precisely what I want is for that doctor to shut the growth of the tumor down, be a corrupt elite to that tumor, tell it the show's over. It's part of my body like the runaway growth thing is part of the economy, but if eith…

Exponential growth can't go on forever (according to our current understanding of physics anyway), but we're a long way away from the cap. Plenty of resources in the solar system, after all. I'm not unconcerned that our resources can only grow as fast as our lightcone, but I don't lose much sleep either.

Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is TFP assumed exponential by default? What's the theory behind that? A time lag in the transfer between exponential input growth (e.g. population) and exponential output growth?

It's not always assumed to be exponential. It was assumed exponential by Paul Romer because long-term economic growth is pretty exponential. Much subsequent work has followed that model, but not all of it.

> long-term economic growth is pretty exponential

Yeah, that graph with the largest time scale on the article strongly disagrees.

Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is TFP assumed exponential by default? What's the theory behind that? A time lag in the transfer between exponential input growth (e.g. population) and exponential output growth?

It's not always assumed to be exponential. It was assumed exponential by Paul Romer because long-term economic growth is pretty exponential. Much subsequent work has followed that model, but not all of it.

But TFP is not output. Exponential output growth can come directly from exponential input growth, which would be a trivial obvervation.

Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?

#58
post #50
post #28

It's almost certainly exponential, but the rate of growth depends on a number of dynamic factors. Corrupt elites often shut growth down. It happened in China and Japan several times in the second millennium, and it's happening in the US in the third one; we've backslid since about 1970.

[deleted]

Electoral turnovers, voting out incumbents, reduces corruption, improves public economic outlook:

https://www.nber.org/papers/w29766

Second most influential economic policy after Brookings, according to Wikipedia. Just qualifying the source for folks that may not know.

Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?

#59
The whole discussion seems to center on the TFP index. I'm not familiar with this, but Wikipedia says "it's also called multi-factor productivity", and it's a ratio of GDP to the "weighted geometric average of labour and capital input". Asking "is growth linear?" is a very different question than "is output/input linear?". Of course it's reasonable for input to grow exponentially as well as output, so yes, the ratio should be linear, which is not inconsistent with just the output being exponential.

And, I can't say without more reading more, what might be hidden by that weighting? Zooming into an exponential enough will make it look linear.

Re: Is growth linear, not exponential?

#60
post #3

Is this new? I remember reading an article a long time ago (maybe 15 years?) discussing how growth in aircraft speed was overall exponential, but linear for each new technology that was introduced.

Aircraft speed maxed out a long time ago. "All the aircraft which went significantly over Mach 3 are now in museums." - Scott Crossfield, former X-15 test pilot.
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