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Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

driving.ca

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Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#51

Post by djfobbz »

james_pm wrote: post #17
giantg2 wrote: post #12

This seems misguided to me. One of the biggest benefits to an EV is not having to go to a gas station. Most people can charge at home for their typical needs. Next, it makes sense to put then at a person's work, then at stores or public parking. And of course there needs to be charging infrastructure on highway gas stations and/or rest stops. Making all gas stations, especially urban ones, pay a fine for not having c…

Many people can not charge at home. Where I live (Toronto), street parking is common. It's not possible to charge on the street near your house. Condos have parking garages and unless they put a charger at each single spot, most of those people can't charge either. Toyota has it right - there are huge issues to be solved before widespread roll out of EV is possible. The charging question is just one of them.

If people can't charge their vehicles at home (inside their garage), I see that as a burden on the city to provide adequate street based charging stations...similar to parking meters they already have.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#52

Post by adhocmobility »

Waiting anywhere while your car is charging seems like an awful user experience. I've always imagined that a quick battery swap service would become the standard. Don't know how feasible it is though, maybe someone can shed more light on that.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#53

Post by bsuvc »

goodpoint wrote: post #45
bsuvc wrote: post #20

Intended outcome: more EV charging stations Actual outcome: fewer gas stations

Still good.

I suppose so, if your view of success for one thing is to make something else worse.

My first reaction is that this would hurt poor people, who can’t afford to buy new EVs. That doesn’t meet my definition of “good”.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#54

Post by alisonatwork »

meetups323 wrote: post #24
alisonatwork wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As mentioned in the article, the proposal would require only a single fast charging spot to avoid the fee.

Sorry what? A fast charging spot handles maybe one car every 15 minutes. The smallest gas station handles 4 cars every 5 minutes. Using gas station land for fast charging doesn't make sense... far better off requiring grocery stores, parks, shopping centers, etc. to install banks of fast chargers. That way there's at least something more to do while waiting for charge than... "hang out at a gas station for far longer…

I'm not passing judgement on the proposal, I am merely pointing out that there is no need to "provide EV parking" to comply - all that is required is a single spot, which obviously already exists otherwise the gas station itself would not exist. If a gas station is so busy supplying internal combustion vehicles that it cannot free up even a single spot for a charging station, then presumably they can also afford to pay the fee.

It's true that it would be better for the user of the electric vehicle to have some stuff to do nearby the spot where they are charging, but in this hypothetical situation where a gas station is so small that they can barely cram a single charging spot in, presumably the gas station is also located walking distance from plenty of shops, parks and other facilities.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#55

Post by zeryx »

arcticbull wrote: post #37
zeryx wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people in Canada don't have a home, they rent - especially in BC.

That's straight-up wrong. Home ownership rates in Canada are actually really high, 68.55% so more than 2/3 of Canadians own their own homes. [edit] In fact Surrey, while not Vancouver proper, comes in at the #4 spot for the highest percentage of millennials who own their homes. [1] [1] https://edisonfinancial.ca/millennial-home-ownership-canada/

Condos don't count.. unfortunately. Most condo boards don't support installing electric charging infrastructure.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#56

Post by gist »

Legally will never happen. Will be challenged and while maybe they reserve the right to approve new locations with this (minor) stipulation not going to take existing businesses and wack them with a $10k fee like this. And forgetting the purpose or the reason simply not what you do.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#57

Post by ryanbrunner »

giantg2 wrote: post #31
zeryx wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people in Canada don't have a home, they rent - especially in BC.

If they rent, where do they park at that residence? That's where it makes sense to charge. How many of the renters without parking have a car? If it's really true that "Most people in Canada" don't have a home, then do you really think that the 66 gas stations in Vancouver can accommodate all those people?

Even if you own something, there's no guarantee that you have your own private parking space to install EV chargers. Where I live (an old, very dense downtown), some houses don't have a driveway, and most can only accommodate a single car. Street parking is very common for residents. On top of that, apartments aren't guaranteed to have EV chargers installed.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#58

Post by brewdad »

kayfox wrote: post #29

Having sat around in EVs charging with nothing to do, it would be better for Vancouver to incentivize charging stations at places where people might spend that time doing something, like stores, restaurants, etc. It would also be nice for chargers to be installed for street parking in popular areas. Sitting at a gas station for a half hour to an hour sounds more like punishment for having an EV.

Most gas stations in my area are located near other amenities. Your average driver will still be inclined to hang out at their car though, since getting to those other stores and restaurants involves walking across huge parking lots or along high speed, pedestrian hostile roads.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#59

Post by giantg2 »

james_pm wrote: post #17
giantg2 wrote: post #12

This seems misguided to me. One of the biggest benefits to an EV is not having to go to a gas station. Most people can charge at home for their typical needs. Next, it makes sense to put then at a person's work, then at stores or public parking. And of course there needs to be charging infrastructure on highway gas stations and/or rest stops. Making all gas stations, especially urban ones, pay a fine for not having c…

Many people can not charge at home. Where I live (Toronto), street parking is common. It's not possible to charge on the street near your house. Condos have parking garages and unless they put a charger at each single spot, most of those people can't charge either. Toyota has it right - there are huge issues to be solved before widespread roll out of EV is possible. The charging question is just one of them.

"It's not possible to charge on the street near your house."

This seems like a huge opportunity considering how much Street parking there is. Several interesting approaches come to mind for providing this, from running lockable (hardware and software) charging cables to empower residents to set up charging infrastructure of their home (plus legal changes to designate those spaces for those who improved them; to public infrastructure in the curbs.

"there are huge issues to be solved before widespread roll out of EV is possible."

I agree. One of the biggest issues in my mind is just deciding if we want to standardize and create infrastructure as a society, or if we want to empower individuals to make the changes they require.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#60

Post by rhacker »

Has anyone noticed lately there's an overwhelming number of laws designed more for virtue signalling than effectiveness? Straws for example. Shouldn't we be writing laws banning plastic straws rather than fine places for passing them out without being asked.

Also for EVs if there is a lot of money in charging networks, wouldn't the market just "work" for that. I'm kind of sick of liberal politics (but not liberal ideas - like people buying EVs and supporting a clean environment).

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