Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

pahouse.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 253 posts

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#51

Post by tshaddox »

Victerius wrote: post #13
QuikAccount wrote: post #4

Fully in favor of this. I recently had to cancel a subscription that had no "cancel subscription" button and instead forced you to contact customer service so they could try to sell you on discounts and etc. No, just let me cancel and get on with my day. Unfortunately, it seems health clubs(and I assume gyms?) are exempt from this when they are like 80% of the problem.

During the pandemic, I built a home gym in a spare space at home for a couple hundred dollars. I'm never paying for a gym again.

Unfortunately in most of the Bay Area, even just the floor space to have anything remotely usable as a home gym would cost many hundreds of dollars per month.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#52

Post by datadata »

bradly wrote: post #20
datadata wrote: post #12

The effect of this bill is probably that it will either never be enforced or companies will terminate business in Pennsylvania, at least until more jurisdictions adopt compatible rules. At best companies would only offer these rights for Pennsylvania residents. Local legislation seems incompatible with the economies of scale of internet commerce. I wish that rather than creating laws like this that only govern a tiny…

ATT Wireless currently offers online cancellations only if you are in New York. These laws help.

The fact that you only get this if you are a resident of a single state is part of my point. The law is good, but having each state exert its own rules is a lot of regulatory friction.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#53

Post by JumpCrisscross »

smt88 wrote: post #9
vba616 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This section shall not apply to a business entity that is subject to the act of December 21, 1989 (P.L.672, No.87), known as the Health Club Act" (in reference to disclosure of material changes to a service) What is it with health clubs?!

It appears that health clubs are already highly regulated when it comes to memberships, so perhaps it seems like this law would be confusing to overlay on top of those regulations: https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/protect-yourself/consumer-ad...

> health clubs are already highly regulated when it comes to memberships

I had thousands of dollars of prepaid training with 24 Hour Fitness in New York City when they potted that LLC into bankruptcy. Class counsel negotiated a $50 gift card for anyone with claims over $200, or something stupid like that. Bought home equipment and work with my trainer over Zoom.

TL; DR Even in highly-regulated markets, the protections are B.S.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#54

Post by webmobdev »

hn_user2 wrote: post #42
zja wrote: post #19

Not to excuse companies that make you jump through hoops to unsubscribe, but is there any reason you can't just call your credit card/bank and cut off transactions to a company that's giving you a hard time? I've heard horror stories about people trying to cancel gym memberships, and wondered why they don't just stop paying, and let the gym figure it out.

That stops the payment from happening. But it does not stop your contractual obligation to pay. So it really depends on the business and how much information they have about you, and if they are dirty enough to send you to collections for it. A gym is likely going to send you to collections. An online SaaS is more likely to just cut you off and cancel the account.

> But it does not stop your contractual obligation to pay.

Can't you Americans just send a certified letter informing a business of your intent to cancel and asking them to send you a final bill (if any) to settle payments within a specified time limit? That should cover you legally?

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#55

Post by LegitShady »

m463 wrote: post #48
LegitShady wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

during the pandemic a couple hundred dollars wouldn't even buy me enough weights for a bench press, let alone the rest of the necessary equipment.

I was going to say there is always used gym equipment available (used a handful of times), but then I never tested the market in the middle of the pandemic.

during the pandemic (and somewhat even now) the price of used equipment was extremely elevated. Even basic weights were expensive. Used plates in my area went from 50c/lb to $1/lb+. The prices of equipment similarly jumped. It was a bad time to build a gym, financially, but necessary.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#56

Post by lovecg »

webmobdev wrote: post #54
hn_user2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That stops the payment from happening. But it does not stop your contractual obligation to pay. So it really depends on the business and how much information they have about you, and if they are dirty enough to send you to collections for it. A gym is likely going to send you to collections. An online SaaS is more likely to just cut you off and cancel the account.

> But it does not stop your contractual obligation to pay. Can't you Americans just send a certified letter informing a business of your intent to cancel and asking them to send you a final bill (if any) to settle payments within a specified time limit? That should cover you legally?

The problem is generally in the contract you sign when agreeing to the membership in the first place. There’s a lot of fine print stipulating how cancellation will work exactly.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#57

Post by adharmad »

webmobdev wrote: post #54
hn_user2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That stops the payment from happening. But it does not stop your contractual obligation to pay. So it really depends on the business and how much information they have about you, and if they are dirty enough to send you to collections for it. A gym is likely going to send you to collections. An online SaaS is more likely to just cut you off and cancel the account.

> But it does not stop your contractual obligation to pay. Can't you Americans just send a certified letter informing a business of your intent to cancel and asking them to send you a final bill (if any) to settle payments within a specified time limit? That should cover you legally?

If you have already signed up for a fixed period (such as an year), then your that would remain your minimum obligation. Sleazy business will allow you to break the obligation at a hefty fine.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#58

Post by thaumasiotes »

Victerius wrote: post #13
QuikAccount wrote: post #4

Fully in favor of this. I recently had to cancel a subscription that had no "cancel subscription" button and instead forced you to contact customer service so they could try to sell you on discounts and etc. No, just let me cancel and get on with my day. Unfortunately, it seems health clubs(and I assume gyms?) are exempt from this when they are like 80% of the problem.

During the pandemic, I built a home gym in a spare space at home for a couple hundred dollars. I'm never paying for a gym again.

> I'm never paying for a gym again.

I believe for most gymgoers, a primary purpose of going to the gym is to hang out with your gym friends.

If you just want exercise, you can do body weight exercises for free; a couple hundred dollars is overkill.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#59

Post by dataflow »

tshaddox wrote: post #51
Victerius wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the pandemic, I built a home gym in a spare space at home for a couple hundred dollars. I'm never paying for a gym again.

Unfortunately in most of the Bay Area, even just the floor space to have anything remotely usable as a home gym would cost many hundreds of dollars per month.

I think the point here was "see if you might already have enough space to spare", not "get extra space for the sake of a home gym".

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#60

Post by ResNet »

zja wrote: post #19

Not to excuse companies that make you jump through hoops to unsubscribe, but is there any reason you can't just call your credit card/bank and cut off transactions to a company that's giving you a hard time? I've heard horror stories about people trying to cancel gym memberships, and wondered why they don't just stop paying, and let the gym figure it out.

Whilst asking your bank/CC company to block a merchant is possible, it's not a reliable way of ensuring you aren't charged by the same company again — they could make use of a different payment processor (e.g. going from Stripe to BrainTree) or merchant account, and from the bank's perspective, a different entity made a charge and the ban would not be respected.

That's not to say that asking your bank to block Merchant X isn't useful, but the bank can't guarantee that the merchant won't be able charge you again via a different payment processor/etc., and is why some banks are hesitant to offer this functionality.

Post reply on HN