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What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

residentcontrarian.com

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Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#51
Ooh, good article. As somebody who had a bunch of shitty jobs in my youth, I recognize a lot of this.

One thing he doesn't quite name here, though, is trauma and recovery. Decades of cushy software jobs has given me opportunities to heal. I have my shit much more together now, and wouldn't have happened without that healing. Sanity is a luxury good.

So it's this part that troubles me:

> on average low-skill workers are worse in a lot of ways than high-skilled people

I think this is partly correct, but it treats worse-ness as an intrinsic of the person, not a consequence of the circumstances. It's a good example of the fundamental attribution error. [1] It's also a good example of why playing around with E-Prime [2] can be such a useful cognitive tool; avoiding intrinsics can clarify thinking.

As he noted, shitty jobs caused physical illness. But they also break and stunt people in non-physical ways. Treating people like an underclass is a good way to create an underclass. Not just in the workers themselves, but in the children of the workers. The various ACE studies make clear the ongoing cost of childhood trauma, some of which is caused and all of which is worsened by poverty and economic instability.

And from the story in the footnote, that's quite clearly what some people want. That manager didn't regret fucking all those people over. She gloried in it. Managerialism [3] is the modern, socially acceptable form of feudalism. There are plenty of people who only feel good if they have it better than somebody else. We let that continue at our peril.

[1] https://online.hbs.edu/blog/post/the-fundamental-attribution...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Prime

[3] https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/confronting-managerialism-9781...

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prosecutors do a lot of work, but the idea that they lose a lot is questionable. In the federal system, more than 90% of defendants plead guilty, and only around 1% of defendants take a case to trial and ultimately win. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/11/only-2-of-f... The numbers in state courts may vary, but in NY they are similar to the federal system. https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Do…

Yes true, I was more thinking when things went to trial. Pleas make up a large share of outcomes. I was just more surprised at how badly things can go wrong in the process which ends up with a dismissal or acquittal; whether that's police process, evidentiary, testimony, etc.

The troubling part is the prime tactic is to get people to plea. One of the methods employed is to massively overcharge where the defendant is looking at say 20 years if they lose at trial vs 5 years if they plea. Most people plea, even if they are innocent. Many prosecutors overcharge even when they have a weak case. It's not justice, it's the system protecting its existence.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#53

I think this article starts to touch on a topic area I don't hear much about but am extremely frustrated by: how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude. In the "When They Know They've Got You" section, they mention the real challenges of not being able to obtain a lawyer if things truly aren't fair. The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. Insurance is a scam in…

> modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude

It’s slavery as a service

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#54
post #19
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pediatric oncology. That job must be nightmarish for anyone who isn’t a full-blown sociopath. I’m not a particularly empathetic person and I couldn’t start that job let alone stay in it for years. Edit: > One of the attractions of pediatrics is, surprisingly enough… This is the opposite of surprising. I imagine one of the appeals of pediatrics is significantly fewer of your patients die. That’s why pediatric oncolo…

There was a young woman in my high school and University class, she was a bit strange. Extremely bright beyond her years, sociable, and got along well with both the teachers and most of the students. There was always something a bit off with her though. From early high-school, as soon as “career” talk got more serious, she had only one job that she claimed she wanted to do, “Pediactric Oncology”. Some of the teachers…

Oh no, was a person "a bit strange"? Were they "a bit off"? Think of the children!!!

It seems especially ugly to see that here on HN. I grew up as the "a bit strange" person in a small midwestern town. It sucked. it wasn't until I got the fuck out and got into tech that I got to be around other nerdy, non-neurotypical people like myself that I finally felt like I could breathe.

If you have a complaint about somebody, fine, make it in clear and precise terms. But this scary-scary vagueness looks to me like standard-issue neurotypical bigotry.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#55
post #4

I always have to think about this when people say "buy more at small businesses!" Most small businesse owners I met were just as shitty as the ones of big businesses, they just weren't as smart as them.

I don't doubt one bit that the average small business owner is roughly as shitty as a manager at a large chain. But I don't think that undermines the core motivation behind "buy local": all else being equal, buying local is still a way to improve the resilience and diversity of your local economy. We shouldn't let the fact that managment/ownership appears to be generally morally corrosive taunt us away from doing som…

Buy local should be about local production and not local retail. A lot of small businesses just resell shit they buy online

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#56

I think this article starts to touch on a topic area I don't hear much about but am extremely frustrated by: how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude. In the "When They Know They've Got You" section, they mention the real challenges of not being able to obtain a lawyer if things truly aren't fair. The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. Insurance is a scam in…

This is the best post in this thread. This is all very much true. One more thing that most Americans don't admit is that people mostly work jobs they have started out in. When I was in shitty jobs, people started out and stayed there. As I move up, I notice that people also started out and stayed there. Anecdotally, the US has much less mobility than what is commonly believed. Anyway, I went off topic - don't want to…

You're not just having a hunch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#57
post #35

>> A meatgrinder job is a job that pays more not because there are fewer people who can do it, but because there are fewer people that will. They have insanely high turnover, because some aspect of the job is so bad that the vast majority of people who try it don’t stay. Maybe it’s long hours that never stop or maybe it’s constant on-call work. Maybe it’s an insane, stress-intensive workload you can’t begin to keep u…

Sat down at a bar once and the woman next to me was a pediatric oncologist, basically just crying into her beer about how she wanted to quit. It wasn't just sad-- it was an incredibly interesting conversation that I still remember about a decade later.

I haven’t spoken to a lot of doctors, but a lot of nurses I know are desperate to leave the field.

The last doctor I spoke to was the most condescending man I met in a while, unfortunately, he was also my surgeon.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't doubt one bit that the average small business owner is roughly as shitty as a manager at a large chain. But I don't think that undermines the core motivation behind "buy local": all else being equal, buying local is still a way to improve the resilience and diversity of your local economy. We shouldn't let the fact that managment/ownership appears to be generally morally corrosive taunt us away from doing som…

That being said, some owners are so reprehensible that buying at a mega corp is the better choice. A local business to me was boycotted out of existence after they had a meltdown on Facebook when they were criticized for their support of the fascists that tried to overturn the election on Jan 6.

That’s a pretty extreme case and an exception to the general principle of preferring to buy local. Some local shops are owned by assholes, it’s true, but usually you can just shop somewhere else locally. Almost all big corporations exploit their workers, the environment, or society to a certain degree. Unfortunately there are some things you cannot avoid using big companies for, because they hold a monopoly or technological advantage on the product or service.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#59
These low paying shitty jobs in developed countries sound quite pleasant compared to what people in third world countries are forced to do. These jobs are what came to my mind as an Indian when I read the title:

https://dw.com/en/india-manual-scavengers-continue-to-remove...

https://thewire.in/labour/manual-scavenging-sanitation-worke...

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