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Hello V-Lang

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Re: Hello V-Lang

#51

Post by paskozdilar »

amedvednikov wrote: post #45
paskozdilar wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a dishonest benchmark. You're basically saying that "V compiles fast if you use a fast C compiler after the transpilation step", and wrapping it up as "V compiles fast". Those two are not exactly the same.

It's absolutely not a dishonest benchmark. This backend comes bundled with V, it's what it uses by default. That's how you get the end result binaries when you use V. To the end user it doesn't matter how the binary was generated. Via LLVM or via a bundled C compiler. The only thing that matters: getting that binary after compilation and getting it fast.

At this point, I'm sure you can find a justification for any kind of criticism anyone brings up, so I will stop bringing it up. Sorry for being a bother, and good luck with your Go clone.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#52

Post by agumonkey »

amedvednikov wrote: post #36
agumonkey wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because author kinda twisted terms to make it seems he achieved the impossible. Felt like he did better than rust+ada+haskell, all without using memory and faster than an eyeblink.

Can you elaborate? There was never a claim it doesn't use memory (although it does use a lot less memory than most compilers). The language is indeed fast, V compiles itself in 0.3 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvP6wmcl_Sc

Are you the V designer ? is V compiled to native code or transpiled to C (then an actual compiler will make the work to emit native) ?

Re: Hello V-Lang

#53

Post by bheadmaster »

amedvednikov wrote: post #50
kgeist wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But it's not finished yet. We saw a better performance with a GC (due to all the extra copying autofree has to do), and made it the default On vlang.io I can find this: >Most objects (~90-100%) are freed by V's autofree engine: the compiler inserts necessary free calls automatically during compilation. Remaining small percentage of objects is freed via GC. So it's been 2 years and it's still unfinished, and you just…

But it says right there: Note: right now autofree is hidden behind the -autofree flag. It will be enabled by default in V 0.3. Using gc means it's a toy language? Got you.

A toy language is a term for a computer programming language that is not considered to fulfill the robustness or completeness requirement of a computer programming language.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#54

Post by amedvednikov »

paskozdilar wrote: post #51
amedvednikov wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely not a dishonest benchmark. This backend comes bundled with V, it's what it uses by default. That's how you get the end result binaries when you use V. To the end user it doesn't matter how the binary was generated. Via LLVM or via a bundled C compiler. The only thing that matters: getting that binary after compilation and getting it fast.

At this point, I'm sure you can find a justification for any kind of criticism anyone brings up, so I will stop bringing it up. Sorry for being a bother, and good luck with your Go clone.

It's not a justification. It's how it works. People download the language, they use it to compile a binary, it's produced quickly.

I'm not sure how you can argue about that.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#55

Post by amedvednikov »

christophilus wrote: post #47
tony-allan wrote: post #10

An interesting language that’s worth a look https://vlang.io/ https://github.com/vlang/awesome-v

I took it for a spin recently and enjoyed the experience. The Postgres driver was woefully slow, compared to Golang (50 queries per second for a trivial query vs over 10k), which is the only reason my side project isn’t in V. It’s a great language, though. Looking forward to using it in the future.

Wow that shouldn't be the case!

Can you link to the pg benchmark you did? We need to fix this asap.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#56

Post by ruune »

lf-non wrote: post #13
amedvednikov wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All big projects have open GitHub issues. You just linked to 500 open and 3000 closed bugs in V. For example, Rust has 8000 open/35000 closed. Yet it's a very mature language. V is very stable for its age. The compiler can build itself since the release (it now has 220k lines of V!) and we have big projects like the Vinix OS written entirely in V, and it can already run GCC/g++ and Doom for example.

Ok, I'll try it out once more. Last I tried it a simple program I wrote using the ui toolkit was crashing for some issue I couldn't quite figure out. Maybe things have substantially improved since.

I had the same experience. Tried out V a couple of weeks ago because I needed a really simple GUI application. Compiling example code resulted in errors I couldn't understand nor google. I enjoyed playing around with V until that point, but went back to Go and built my stuff with some giant UI library into a 10mb binary that at least worked how it should. I like V though so I will try it out again sometime

Re: Hello V-Lang

#57

Post by kgeist »

amedvednikov wrote: post #50
kgeist wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But it's not finished yet. We saw a better performance with a GC (due to all the extra copying autofree has to do), and made it the default On vlang.io I can find this: >Most objects (~90-100%) are freed by V's autofree engine: the compiler inserts necessary free calls automatically during compilation. Remaining small percentage of objects is freed via GC. So it's been 2 years and it's still unfinished, and you just…

But it says right there: Note: right now autofree is hidden behind the -autofree flag. It will be enabled by default in V 0.3. Using gc means it's a toy language? Got you.

>Using gc means it's a toy language? Got you.

No, I mean it's a common characteristic of toy languages to use Boehm GC because it requires zero configuration to work, as it scans conservatively. It doesn't require you to emit stack maps or provide the GC with type metadata. Boehm GC means low effort (in regards to memory management). It's perfectly fine to use it, and it's an amazing library itself, but it contrasts with all the claims on the landing page (in the section "innovative memory management").

Re: Hello V-Lang

#58

Post by amedvednikov »

ruune wrote: post #56
lf-non wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I'll try it out once more. Last I tried it a simple program I wrote using the ui toolkit was crashing for some issue I couldn't quite figure out. Maybe things have substantially improved since.

I had the same experience. Tried out V a couple of weeks ago because I needed a really simple GUI application. Compiling example code resulted in errors I couldn't understand nor google. I enjoyed playing around with V until that point, but went back to Go and built my stuff with some giant UI library into a 10mb binary that at least worked how it should. I like V though so I will try it out again sometime

That's strange. All examples are compiled via CI on all systems.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#59

Post by ruune »

amedvednikov wrote: post #58
ruune wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same experience. Tried out V a couple of weeks ago because I needed a really simple GUI application. Compiling example code resulted in errors I couldn't understand nor google. I enjoyed playing around with V until that point, but went back to Go and built my stuff with some giant UI library into a 10mb binary that at least worked how it should. I like V though so I will try it out again sometime

That's strange. All examples are compiled via CI on all systems.

Maybe that was an error on my end then, early in the morning lying in bed stuff. And iirc the UI library did say it was in an early stage or something like that.

(I think you are the author, or at least involved in the language? I don't want to come off as simply bashing your language. Most people here seem to do enough of that... Definitely didn't try it out enough to have any opinion on the advanced features mentioned. I enjoyed the Go-like syntax with different ideas though. So definitely keep going)

Re: Hello V-Lang

#60

Post by amedvednikov »

ruune wrote: post #59
amedvednikov wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's strange. All examples are compiled via CI on all systems.

Maybe that was an error on my end then, early in the morning lying in bed stuff. And iirc the UI library did say it was in an early stage or something like that. (I think you are the author, or at least involved in the language? I don't want to come off as simply bashing your language. Most people here seem to do enough of that... Definitely didn't try it out enough to have any opinion on the advanced features mentio…

Yes, I'm the author, and indeed the UI is at a very early stage.

We'll make it stable this year.

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