Are We Sleepwalking into Wwiii? • Hacker News Board

Re: Are We Sleepwalking into Wwiii?

#51

Post by aaaaaaaaata » Sat, Apr 09, 2022, 4:22 PM UTC

mezentius wrote: post #43

crateless wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a strong show of force and a no-fly-zone would have stopped this, but it's too late now. Scholz is the Chamberlain of our age. It's not too late to put up a no-fly zone. If it was ok then, why is it not ok now?

He is suggesting that a no-fly zone should have been instituted prior to the invasion, at the invitation of Ukraine. This would have produced significantly different military and diplomatic implications; it would have required Russia to be the aggressor, and attempt to strike NATO aircraft preemptively before mounting their initial attacks in Ukraine. If implemented now, a no-fly zone would require NATO aircraft to b…

Before anyone lynches you and takes this off-topic:

> it would have required Russia to be the aggressor

toward NATO*

Re: Are We Sleepwalking into Wwiii?

#52

Post by kstenerud » Sat, Apr 09, 2022, 5:48 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #50

kstenerud wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Russia can not conquer all of Ukraine, and never attempted to do so." Russia did absolutely attempt to do exactly that. This invasion was modelled after Operation Danube, intended to: - Cut off all major airstrips by landing planes in friendship and then unloading paratroopers to capture them. - Quickly enter the major cities and capture the "illegitimate" government. - Crush the pockets of resistance among the most…

You are forgetting an entire half of the country with cities and airports. Even then, operation Danube is more akin to regime change than conquering and occupying a country, which was mersheimers point

At this point we're splitting hairs. I'm not interested in scoring points.

Re: Are We Sleepwalking into Wwiii?

#53

Post by s1artibartfast » Sat, Apr 09, 2022, 5:53 PM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #52

s1artibartfast wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are forgetting an entire half of the country with cities and airports. Even then, operation Danube is more akin to regime change than conquering and occupying a country, which was mersheimers point

At this point we're splitting hairs. I'm not interested in scoring points.

Thats fine, but it is the central part of the quote

>"In fact if you really want to wreck Russia, what you should do is encourage it to try and conquer Ukraine. Putin again is much too smart to do that."

This is true if you are talking about military occupation. obviously not true for a coup, assassination, or quick regime change.

Re: Are We Sleepwalking into Wwiii?

#54

Post by mezentius » Sat, Apr 09, 2022, 8:30 PM UTC

aaaaaaaaata wrote: post #51

mezentius wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is suggesting that a no-fly zone should have been instituted prior to the invasion, at the invitation of Ukraine. This would have produced significantly different military and diplomatic implications; it would have required Russia to be the aggressor, and attempt to strike NATO aircraft preemptively before mounting their initial attacks in Ukraine. If implemented now, a no-fly zone would require NATO aircraft to b…

Before anyone lynches you and takes this off-topic: > it would have required Russia to be the aggressor toward NATO*

Yes, thank you, that was my intended meaning.