iPhone 4S Pre-Orders Top One Million in First 24 Hours • Hacker News Board

Re: iPhone 4S Pre-Orders Top One Million in First 24 Hours

#51

Post by ugh » Mon, Oct 10, 2011, 4:09 PM UTC

iaskwhy wrote: post #49

ugh wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what exactly were those people wanting?

I'd say they were expecting the iPhone 5 because Apple did not upgrade the iPhone 4 in the summer like they did with the iPhone 3G and also because iOS 5 was already announced. Now about what would they expect from the iPhone 5, that's more complicated. Look, they created an amazing smartphone out of nowhere, then they did the iPad and then they even did the cheaper MacBook Air. I guess people could be expecting some…

I don’t understand you. Are you suggesting that Apple should ditch iOS?

Re: iPhone 4S Pre-Orders Top One Million in First 24 Hours

#52

Post by runjake » Mon, Oct 10, 2011, 4:09 PM UTC

dr_ wrote: post #14

Even before this announcement, it is beyond me how anyone can argue that this is not the best smartphone on the market. It has an incredibly fast processor, fantastic camera, one of the most popular music hubs (iTunes), the largest app store and probably the most advanced AI technology in a phone. When the technorati (and, to be honest, most bloggers have been supportive of the product) diss this phone, are they actu…

Different strokes for different folks. The iPhone is a great phone, but it's silly to suggest the iPhone is one size fits all.

PS: I chose a Windows Phone. Though, I'd be on an iPhone if Mango (Windows Phone 7.5) wasn't around.

Re: iPhone 4S Pre-Orders Top One Million in First 24 Hours

#53

Post by DannoHung » Mon, Oct 10, 2011, 4:11 PM UTC

CJefferson wrote: post #31

dr_ wrote: post #14

Even before this announcement, it is beyond me how anyone can argue that this is not the best smartphone on the market. It has an incredibly fast processor, fantastic camera, one of the most popular music hubs (iTunes), the largest app store and probably the most advanced AI technology in a phone. When the technorati (and, to be honest, most bloggers have been supportive of the product) diss this phone, are they actu…

You really can't imagine why anyone might prefer the Samsung Galaxy S II (for example) to an iPhone? How about (straight off the top of my head) Better Linux connectivity. Ability to easily copy files on and off the phone. Ability to sync podcasts directly on the phone, without having to connect to a computer with iTunes (not used an iPhone for a while, they might have finally fixed this). Ability to run software App…

> Ability to sync podcasts directly on the phone, without having to connect to a computer with iTunes (not used an iPhone for a while, they might have finally fixed this).

Yeah, this has been fixed for about 2 years. Has to be over wifi though because of the 3G download limits (most podcasts are over 20mb).

Re: iPhone 4S Pre-Orders Top One Million in First 24 Hours

#54

Post by tomkinstinch » Mon, Oct 10, 2011, 4:11 PM UTC

hahaiamatwork wrote: post #46

nirvana wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched the keynote, and as someone who does almost all his purchasing online, found myself in Best Buy the other day. So we wandered over to the phones and checked out a Windows phone and an HTC which were right next to each other. The windows phone was pretty interesting. It took my partner a couple tries to figure out how to use it (I'd seen demos online so I was more prepared for the UI) but they eventually got…

Please detail which phone you use and which apps were unintuitive. I hear complaints like this a lot, then try to replicate them on hardware I have to hand, and shockingly I am unable to do so! It's almost as if these stories are massively embellished versions of real interactions. For example. Have you actually seen how complex the home button on an iPhone is?

That's part of the problem. There is diversity in the Android ecosystem. Android hardware and software differ among models and versions. There isn't necessarily a common way of doing things.

Some might argue that the iOS' "one-way-to-do-things" design guidelines are constraining and limit innovation, but in practice they are very well thought out.

Re: iPhone 4S Pre-Orders Top One Million in First 24 Hours

#55

Post by nirvana » Mon, Oct 10, 2011, 4:12 PM UTC

hahaiamatwork wrote: post #28

dr_ wrote: post #14

Even before this announcement, it is beyond me how anyone can argue that this is not the best smartphone on the market. It has an incredibly fast processor, fantastic camera, one of the most popular music hubs (iTunes), the largest app store and probably the most advanced AI technology in a phone. When the technorati (and, to be honest, most bloggers have been supportive of the product) diss this phone, are they actu…

There's only really a couple of points in your post that are valid, so I'll go through each point you made. 1. Phones with the same class of processor have been available for some time now. Tegra 2 is a dual core 1ghz SoC and there are 1.2 and 1.5ghz dual cores from competitors, with a quad core 1.5ghz due from Nvidia within the next few months. 2. The camera may be excellent, but previous phones have applied some ba…

Whenever the iPhone vs. android thing comes up, android proponents seem to always compare an actual iPhone against theoretical android phones? All of the features you're rebutting are in the actual iPhone, but you're comparing them to the entire android ecosystem.

On a point by point basis:

1. Android phones don't have co-processors for image stabilization and quality, for speech recognition, etc. They're using off the shelf parts and don't have the R&D budget to source and integrate the technology Apple has. Further, a couple of Apple's acquisitions were companies that give them an edge in power per watt.

2. Your claim about past iPhones is debatable, but it doesn't address the 4S.

3. I've --and I mean this literally-- heard people saying that competitors were replicating iTunes and it would no longer be a competitive advantage for Apple, since the very year the iTunes store was announced.

4. I think that talking to your phone like this might be a usability issue, we'll see. But nobody was used to touching their phones before Apple did it, and for a couple years after Apple announced the iPhone, people were always saying that phones with keyboards were better.

5. "Significance" is a subjective term, so you can't be wrong there- its significant to you, sure. Both products are quickly eating away at the installed base of feature phones... but it seems android makes sales to segments that just want a feature phone replacement, while the iPhone is making sales into segments where people want a smartphone. This results in iPhone users buying many more apps, using the phone to browse more, etc. Further, there is no successful android equivalent of the iPod touch or the iPad, and thus when looking at the whole market, android isn't doing as well.

6. All platforms have switching costs. Thus your claim here applies to android as well. However, since android users buy fewer apps, its easier for them to switch to the iPhone, than the reverse. The superlative app ecosystem on the iPhone works as a moat, but that effect doesn't help android as much.

Re: iPhone 4S Pre-Orders Top One Million in First 24 Hours

#56

Post by jakemcgraw » Mon, Oct 10, 2011, 4:12 PM UTC

CJefferson wrote: post #31

dr_ wrote: post #14

Even before this announcement, it is beyond me how anyone can argue that this is not the best smartphone on the market. It has an incredibly fast processor, fantastic camera, one of the most popular music hubs (iTunes), the largest app store and probably the most advanced AI technology in a phone. When the technorati (and, to be honest, most bloggers have been supportive of the product) diss this phone, are they actu…

You really can't imagine why anyone might prefer the Samsung Galaxy S II (for example) to an iPhone? How about (straight off the top of my head) Better Linux connectivity. Ability to easily copy files on and off the phone. Ability to sync podcasts directly on the phone, without having to connect to a computer with iTunes (not used an iPhone for a while, they might have finally fixed this). Ability to run software App…

> Better Linux connectivity.

Doesn't matter. No one uses Linux.

> Ability to easily copy files on and off the phone.

Doesn't matter. Everyone uses email for a file store.

> Ability to sync podcasts directly on the phone, without having to connect to a computer with iTunes (not used an iPhone for a while, they might have finally fixed this).

They fixed this, also, doesn't matter, no one listens to podcasts.

> Ability to run software Apple doesn't like (emulators).

Doesn't matter.

If you want to make an argument that Android is a better purchase option for mass market consumers, you'll need an argument that actually represents the mass market. I can't think of any argument, as Apple alternatives are always better: better media library, better app library, better product lifetime support (both in terms of software updates, product maintenance), better hardware, better (consistent) software, better branding. These are the things that matter to people.

Re: iPhone 4S Pre-Orders Top One Million in First 24 Hours

#57

Post by thatjoshguy » Mon, Oct 10, 2011, 4:13 PM UTC

hahaiamatwork wrote: post #46

nirvana wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched the keynote, and as someone who does almost all his purchasing online, found myself in Best Buy the other day. So we wandered over to the phones and checked out a Windows phone and an HTC which were right next to each other. The windows phone was pretty interesting. It took my partner a couple tries to figure out how to use it (I'd seen demos online so I was more prepared for the UI) but they eventually got…

Please detail which phone you use and which apps were unintuitive. I hear complaints like this a lot, then try to replicate them on hardware I have to hand, and shockingly I am unable to do so! It's almost as if these stories are massively embellished versions of real interactions. For example. Have you actually seen how complex the home button on an iPhone is?

Just playing devils advocate here... how complex is the home button? Clicking it does one thing: takes you to the first page of the home screen. If you're already there, it takes you to Spotlight.

Double clicking it pops up the multitasker.

Re: iPhone 4S Pre-Orders Top One Million in First 24 Hours

#58

Post by jstedfast » Mon, Oct 10, 2011, 4:13 PM UTC

CJefferson wrote: post #31

dr_ wrote: post #14

Even before this announcement, it is beyond me how anyone can argue that this is not the best smartphone on the market. It has an incredibly fast processor, fantastic camera, one of the most popular music hubs (iTunes), the largest app store and probably the most advanced AI technology in a phone. When the technorati (and, to be honest, most bloggers have been supportive of the product) diss this phone, are they actu…

You really can't imagine why anyone might prefer the Samsung Galaxy S II (for example) to an iPhone? How about (straight off the top of my head) Better Linux connectivity. Ability to easily copy files on and off the phone. Ability to sync podcasts directly on the phone, without having to connect to a computer with iTunes (not used an iPhone for a while, they might have finally fixed this). Ability to run software App…

> Better Linux connectivity.

Very few people actually run Linux on their desktops. If you are one of those people, then yes, I can see this being an advantage. Otherwise... not so much.

I'm a Linux guy and when I had an iPhone, I used to just reboot to my Windows partition to sync my phone. I'd do it ~once per week or so (to sync up with the latest podcasts).

> Ability to easily copy files on and off the phone.

To be honest, I have found this to be more problematic on Android. iTunes synced my music/photos/etc and it Just Worked (tm).

On my Android phone, when I rsync my music/photos/etc from my Linux partition to my phone's SD card, it clobbers everything due to the FS being FAT32 (case insensitive). It's a nightmare to keep things in sync and it takes longer.

> Ability to sync podcasts directly on the phone, without having to connect to a computer with iTunes (not used an iPhone for a while, they might have finally fixed this).

Yes, iPhone has this now. It can both sync with your desktop wirelessly and download the latest podcasts via the iTunes app on your phone if you aren't anywhere near your desktop w/ iTunes.

> Ability to run software Apple doesn't like (emulators).

Jailbreak? I mean, ya gotta do that with Android too...

> We haven't really seen the AI yet, I remain to be convinced, and I don't care about the camera.

I'm skeptical as well, but if it works anywhere near as well as advertised, it will be awesome.

Packing more pixels into such a tiny sensor isn't really going to improve the quality of the photos. However, more sensitivity might...

From what I understand, they've done both... so maybe it'll help or maybe it won't.

The HDR photography that iPhone 4 supported was awesome and makes me regret getting a Samsung Galaxy S which, quite frankly, sucks hardcore in every way.

But I'm a Linux guy so I got an Android... won't be making that mistake again :-\

> Also, you mention price point. The iPhone (particularly the 4S) is about the most expensive phone around at the moment. In general of course the most expensive phone with have the fastest processor, that's hardly suprising.

Equivalent Android's aren't typically much (if at all) cheaper, though (if you buy them outright, at least). Of course, the carriers do seem to subsidize Android phones a lot more than iPhones (which is how you can get most Android phones for cheap-cheap with a 2 year contract).

Re: iPhone 4S Pre-Orders Top One Million in First 24 Hours

#59

Post by rdtsc » Mon, Oct 10, 2011, 4:13 PM UTC

dr_ wrote: post #14

Even before this announcement, it is beyond me how anyone can argue that this is not the best smartphone on the market. It has an incredibly fast processor, fantastic camera, one of the most popular music hubs (iTunes), the largest app store and probably the most advanced AI technology in a phone. When the technorati (and, to be honest, most bloggers have been supportive of the product) diss this phone, are they actu…

> are they actually suggesting someone would be better off with a Android, Blackberry or Windows 7 phone?

It seems your comment is based on a flawed assumption that all these consumer devices should be evaluated in a vacuum where price, app markets, & previous corporate adoption doesn't matter.

iPhones where historically really expensive devices. And price is one of the features of the device just like camera resolution is. So it is a bit like saying "Can't people see that a Lexus is a much better car than a Honda Civic? Why are reviews for a Honda Civic better sometimes than reviews for a Lexus, I don't get it !?"

Re: iPhone 4S Pre-Orders Top One Million in First 24 Hours

#60

Post by eren-tantekin » Mon, Oct 10, 2011, 4:16 PM UTC

thatjoshguy wrote: post #43

kaylarose wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those are things regular people - i.e. not hacker news readers - don't give a toss about.

But 'regular' people are loving the Galaxy S 2, I guess because of it's large and vibrant screen, and it's thinner (to hold) compared to the iPhone 4[1]. I really like the Galaxy S 2 and I wish so hard that Android was actually polished to the degree that iOS is. My iPhone bores and I love the screen on the Galaxy S, yet I know I will miss out on OS updates and being able to smoothly rotate the screen. The day androi…

It is about a milimeter thinner than iPhone.