Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

sifted.eu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 143 posts

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#51

Post by lnxg33k1 »

gw67 wrote: post #45
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #2

As Italian, when I read something involving Agnellis willing to do something for Italy, I am a bit scared about taxpayers money, like Fiat has always got tax discounts and subsidies and as a thank you has closed factories, and fired people, can we just keep the people related to Agnellis in the Silicon Valley?

It's just a stereotype, come on!

https://www.google.com/search?q=fiat+lays+off https://www.google.com/search?q=fiat+subsidies I don't think so, if I am honest when I was young the few things I remember hearing continuosly from news was fiat laying off and fiat getting money

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#52

Post by andy_ppp »

0xfaded wrote: post #12
andy_ppp wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes same, even if I don’t get into YC I’ll be trying to raise on US terms. I’ve seen some really stupid startups in Europe end up with crazy dilution to the point where if they thought about it they’d realise they just had a job working for some rich people. US valuations are twice the amount for half the equity from what I’ve seen so why I wouldn’t do that rather than be screwed over I don’t know…

Make sure you incorporate in a form that US investors are comfortable with. Few investors are going to want to figure out what an ApS or GmH is just to make a seed investment in your tiny startup. It also gives tou better exit potential in the event of a M&A.

I’ll probably do whatever Clerky tells me to, which is the service YC tells founders to use I believe…

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#53

Post by allendoerfer »

yywwbbn wrote: post #21
allendoerfer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are basically describing Germany. I try to put it on first-mover disadvantage to make me feel better: Basically Germany has had a relatively functioning administration for hundreds of years (Italy even for thousands). Compared to something you would design from scratch in 2022 it looks a bit archaic. I celebrate every little step forward.

The US administrative and political system is objectively older and more archaic than the ones in almost every European country (besides Britain, Switzerland and maybe(?) Scandinavian countries). Germany was established in 1949 and Italy is a fairly new country as well.

As other commentors pointed out: The fundamentals of German bureaucracy are way older than 1949.

Americans seem to have a special relation to their constitution, but in practice you interface with more detailed areas of the law much more often. The civil code of Germany [0] is from 1881 and even then was not written from scratch, but contains Prussian laws etc.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BCrgerliches_Gesetzbuch

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#54

Post by epolanski »

wlecometo wrote: post #23

Well the main issue in italy is not lack of funding or lack of talent but rather the amount of taxation companies had to go through and the uncertainty behind a big and complex legal system which makes an average of 8 years for civil processing . these two things alone and the fact there are better places in europe to make a startup (hint: netherlands, germany, france, czech republic, romania, poland) makes me wonder…

Yes, doing business in Italy is hard, but when your company is doing poorly financially or is having issues it's the government that is going to pay your worker's salaries. Do places with low taxes have this?

And the education of your worker's is paid by the government, so you don't get employees that are desperate to pay their student loans.

And so is healthcare, so you don't have to pay no insurance (you may, but your workers don't depend on it).

Also, new companies can easily get public funding. Or loans with no interests that are covered by the government. Do companies in different countries get that? Can you get millions in loans at 0 interest that if you can't pay the government will in US?

New companies get a very friendly, near 0 taxation for few years, and the more people you employ (especially if young) the more slack on taxes you get. Do companies in countries with lower taxes get that?

Mind you, I still believe doing business in Italy is too expensive and beurocracy too high, but there's also very serious benefits of doing it that you don't get in silicon valley where the first wrong swing kills your business and company.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#55

Post by dotancohen »

Title: "Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator"

Piacentini's own words: "We have no ambition to emulate the likes of Y Combinator"

I agree with HN's reluctance to alter titles, but in cases where the title itself a lie, clickbait, or gross exaggeration I think that it should be edited.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#56

Post by gw67 »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #51
gw67 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just a stereotype, come on!

https://www.google.com/search?q=fiat+lays+off https://www.google.com/search?q=fiat+subsidies I don't think so, if I am honest when I was young the few things I remember hearing continuosly from news was fiat laying off and fiat getting money

Yeah, but isn't related to this initiative. You are referring to something happened in the past for another company. It doesn't make sense.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#57

Post by gman83 »

dotancohen wrote: post #55

Title: "Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator" Piacentini's own words: "We have no ambition to emulate the likes of Y Combinator" I agree with HN's reluctance to alter titles, but in cases where the title itself a lie, clickbait, or gross exaggeration I think that it should be edited.

The full quote: “We have no ambition to emulate the likes of Y Combinator, or even Kima Ventures, from the start. But we aspire to what they have built — our ultimate goal is to get to that level.”. When read like this it sounds like eventually he would like to build something like Y Combinator.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#58

Post by oblio »

danijelb wrote: post #48
dmitriid wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what are some problems companies in Europe would have to deal with? What liberties are exclusive to the US? 1. Market US: a rather unified single English-speaking market of 300 million people. EU: 27 different markets in the EU + half a dozen markets in countries freely associated with the EU (e.g. Norway and Switzerland) in different languages, cultures and expectations 2. Money US: unlimited unchecked runaway mon…

I don't think that the 27+ EU markets are a problem. I'm not even sure if there are 27+ different markets in the EU in the context of startups/tech, because if there were then each country would have their own isolated tech ecosystem which is not the case. Most EU countries are dominated by US tech companies. If different cultures and languages are not a problem for US startups in spreading to Europe I fail to see wh…

You're missing the bigger picture.

US startups > in the US, the huge single market with a single language, then once they're big and can tackle the bureaucracy in order to get to the huge chunks of cash also available in Europe, they > into the EU.

A not-so-huge startup by US standards can have hundreds of millions of dollars very early in its life, allowing it to switch to international expansion, while most of the equivalent EU startup would probably raise tens of millions by the same stage, if they're lucky.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#59

Post by dgellow »

L_226 wrote: post #16
0xfaded wrote: post #3

If I did another startup in Europe, I would incorporate in Delaware and raise US money from the get go. It's cool to see the YC terms borrowed directly, and hopefully that would be a shot across the bows of European investors. But to really give European founders leverage they need access to US valuations and terms. I think semi-philanthropic incubators like these could really help by guiding founders to form US enti…

I am doing this right now, Stripe Atlas Delaware C-corp but operating in Germany. I could have incorporated a GmbH for €25,000 (goes into an account to act as collateral against future liability) - which uses all my savings basically, or a UG for €1 - but then I can't add other shareholders until I pay an additional €25k to convert it to a GmbH. For my startup, which is capital intensive, I have no choice but to use…

> or a UG for €1 - but then I can't add other shareholders until I pay an additional €25k to convert it to a GmbH.

Could you elaborate on this, or point to a source? The way I understand the mini-GmbH model (UG) there is no limitations regarding shareholders versus a standard GmbH.

Not saying you’re wrong, I’m by far not an expert but I looked into creating a Unternehmergesellschaft ~1 year ago and don’t remember reading about that type of thing.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#60

Post by jason0597 »

dmitriid wrote: post #36
inductive_magic wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From someone who hasn't interacted with the startup world much yet: what are some problems companies in Europe would have to deal with? What liberties are exclusive to the US? I'd imagine lots of complications of running a US-based company within Europe. I can't imagine moving to the US, and I'm sure that lots of smart people in the EU are in the same camp. At the same time, I'd be very interested in providing high v…

> what are some problems companies in Europe would have to deal with? What liberties are exclusive to the US? 1. Market US: a rather unified single English-speaking market of 300 million people. EU: 27 different markets in the EU + half a dozen markets in countries freely associated with the EU (e.g. Norway and Switzerland) in different languages, cultures and expectations 2. Money US: unlimited unchecked runaway mon…

> half a dozen markets in countries freely associated with the EU (e.g. Norway and Switzerland) in different languages, cultures and expectations

Well, it isn't half a dozen, it's more like 3 countries (Iceland, Switzerland and Norway). 4 if you count Liechtenstein with its population of 38k people.

Post reply on HN