From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb • Hacker News Board

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#51

Post by SgtBastard » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 6:45 AM UTC

kqr wrote: post #44

cactus2093 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoiler alert: we mostly are. Engineers with 5 YOE are making $500k+ a year at these companies because they are generating much more than that in revenues and profits for the companies. Airbnb is worth $110B. It's not all blinking cursors, there are thousands of little experiments going on all the time. Increasing the number of bookings by 2% here, 3% there. Increasing the average price of bookings. Random extra feat…

That said, whose life is really improved by those outsized returns from the last few percent? Sure, the major shareholders might see their wealth increase noticeably, but anyone else (even small shareholders through option programmes) will generally not see a big effect. Now, is that additional shareholder wealth really worth the years of engineer effort going into that? Don't get me wrong: airbnb is an amazing servi…

>Now, is that additional shareholder wealth really worth the years of engineer effort going into that?

Where the engineers are partially compensated in stock, RSUs or options? Absolutely. Its not like they're focusing on optimisations at the expenses of other, more dramatic changes.

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#52

Post by paul7986 » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 6:47 AM UTC

Just reading the title hits me as I never thought I'd get to a place where I wouldnt like where I work. It's been four years (longest IT job I've held in ten year career) but suddenly starting in 2022 I havent been paid by the same date I've always been and when asked the owner he said thats just how it is for contractors. Yet it's never been like that and I even noted to him paying me a week or two later then all other times/years causes stress I definitely don't need. He didnt seem to care cause I was paid even later in March and then i was offered a raise in Feb. which was to start March 1st per our conversation over Slack. In the beginning of this month (April) he said "oh sorry your raise is not effective to April 1st, I'm sorry." That was my first raise in four years as for me i'm not driven by money (he offered me a raise in 2020 I said that's ok im just happy to return/be brought back after 6 months away) rather a show of respect and that I am a value to you/your company. His actions to me say he does not value my contribution/work, so...

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#53

Post by Gugabe » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 6:50 AM UTC

cactus2093 wrote: post #8

mindwok wrote: post #3

Am I crazy to think there’s something wrong with the amount of engineering effort going into these startups? When you have engineers working into the wee hours of the morning because you don’t want a cursor to blink on a text field, I can’t help but feel that’s an enormous waste of energy and effort. Since I first used Airbnb 7 years ago, the only real change I can think of is when they added experiences (which is aw…

Spoiler alert: we mostly are. Engineers with 5 YOE are making $500k+ a year at these companies because they are generating much more than that in revenues and profits for the companies. Airbnb is worth $110B. It's not all blinking cursors, there are thousands of little experiments going on all the time. Increasing the number of bookings by 2% here, 3% there. Increasing the average price of bookings. Random extra feat…

Generating value within the hypecycle around tech companies =/= developing value in the absolute sense, no?

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#54

Post by shmde » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 6:53 AM UTC

All in all you're just another brick in the wall.

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#55

Post by jonasdegendt » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 6:54 AM UTC

beckingz wrote: post #2

Corporations will never love you. No matter how much they say they do, they never will. Individuals within the company will intend to do good, but they will be required to do more than just good things. Take care of yourself.

Much like romantic relationships, professional relationships are a learning experience and every new one, you'll hopefully learn to value yourself more, and approach the relationship with your employer more pragmatically. Unlike romantic relationships, at the end of the day you'll probably realize a professional relationship is almost strictly transactional.

I guess a lot of people in tech have gone through the experience of getting a job straight out of college, working yourself to death trying to prove something (whether that's to yourself or your employer) and getting burnt out to some degree, or not seeing any dividends for it. These companies do a very good job at blurring the lines between expectations and what's realistic through the "perks" of the job and whatever flavor of culture reigns.

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#56

Post by hnov » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 6:59 AM UTC

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #43

greatpostman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. Without outing myself, I have work on a choke point widget on the front page of a top 10 USA website. We had 30 engineers running these tests all day long. Was common to get 10 million+ increases to the bottom line on very minor changes. This was over a sample size of 100 million page views.

Did you ever test doing nothing? I assume it's been studied, but I can imagine ways for 10% to actually be noise or seasonal/weekly/whatever variations.

This is called A/A testing and is used to vet the setup.

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#57

Post by Bancakes » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 7:01 AM UTC

cactus2093 wrote: post #8

mindwok wrote: post #3

Am I crazy to think there’s something wrong with the amount of engineering effort going into these startups? When you have engineers working into the wee hours of the morning because you don’t want a cursor to blink on a text field, I can’t help but feel that’s an enormous waste of energy and effort. Since I first used Airbnb 7 years ago, the only real change I can think of is when they added experiences (which is aw…

Spoiler alert: we mostly are. Engineers with 5 YOE are making $500k+ a year at these companies because they are generating much more than that in revenues and profits for the companies. Airbnb is worth $110B. It's not all blinking cursors, there are thousands of little experiments going on all the time. Increasing the number of bookings by 2% here, 3% there. Increasing the average price of bookings. Random extra feat…

I get a eyelid twitch from that type of engineering. Open source teaches us one thing above all - adapt yourself a little and you gain a lot. Only develop an app to fit the specs, and the users will do the rest. It should be fine to be a little tough around the edges - consumers ought to grow slightly thicker skin.

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#58

Post by refurb » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 7:02 AM UTC

ta3411 wrote: post #39

I am going to be voted down into oblivion but it's okay. This is my throwaway account anyway. Here are my 3 pragmatic takes regarding this situation: - If you are an engineer, your total comp is easily north of $200,000. At that pay scale compared to other careers, I expect (and I did) to burn through the night as needed. That's a lot of money for anyone to expect to have a comfortable work/life balance. I always com…

That's a lot of money ($200k) for anyone to expect to have a comfortable work/life balance.

This isn't true at all. In my last job (not tech) a "brutal" week might be 50 hrs and people were making double that, albeit in more senior roles (10+ years of experience).

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#59

Post by vimwizard » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 7:07 AM UTC

orobanche wrote: post #15

fdgsdfogijq wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Burnout is a pretty serious thing that can last for years, a lot of time getting a new job while burnt out is an absolute nightmare. People with money are aloud to have grievances and opinions

Burnout #1 2015 Burnout #2 2016 Psychiatry 2017-2018 Starting looking for a job doing manual labour. Working with a computer no longer an option. Had 2 engineering degrees: electronics & embedded.

>Starting looking for a job doing manual labour. Working with a computer no longer an option.

Can relate, but the career advancement prospects in software-unrelated fields are seemingly non-existent and employers are increasingly exploitative (e.g. CP Rail). Seems you have to start your own company to get anywhere or you're just spinning your wheels for the rest of your working life.

Re: From Belonging to Burnout, Five Years at Airbnb

#60

Post by hiq » Wed, Apr 06, 2022, 7:11 AM UTC

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #43

greatpostman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. Without outing myself, I have work on a choke point widget on the front page of a top 10 USA website. We had 30 engineers running these tests all day long. Was common to get 10 million+ increases to the bottom line on very minor changes. This was over a sample size of 100 million page views.

Did you ever test doing nothing? I assume it's been studied, but I can imagine ways for 10% to actually be noise or seasonal/weekly/whatever variations.

I thought A/B testing was the state of the art in that field, which would address your concern?