Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#51

Post by archerx » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 11:57 AM UTC

recuter wrote: post #39

hugi wrote: post #10

It's nice to see Germany start working towards energy independence. I think it's a crucial factor for both national security and a faster migration to more environmentally friendly energy sources.

Yeah, they got top minds on this. Top. Minds. Nuclear canceled by the Green Party and pre-March went all in on Russian oil and gas.

Sometimes I wonder if the Greens are actually funded by petrol companies because everything they do seems to benefit them in the end. In Switzerland the Greens are trying to be as dumb as the German ones.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#52

Post by nebukadnet » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 11:58 AM UTC

sonicggg wrote: post #40

How many years has Merkel remained in power? This awkward situation is all her doing, but still nobody will mention her name. How can one country willingly put its entire energy sector in the hands of a terrorist state, which has been showing signs since 1999 when bombing its own citizens.

Lots of reasons. It was at the time the least authoritarian regime. The alternatives are Saudi-Arabia, where as I understand the gas is harvested with the help of human rights violations, and other nearby suppliers like Norway were already and still are at capacity.

At the same time, gas is a relatively enviromentally safe, when compared to others, and since the relations to Russia were mostly friendly, the slight problems in the regime were ignored.

Now germany is reliant on them, and that was a mistake they are realizing. But if germany stops accepting gas today, the germans will freeze in the winter when the gas runs out, so its a complicated situation.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#53

Post by nieksand » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 11:58 AM UTC

LAC-Tech wrote: post #29

This doesn't make sense to me. Can i get an explanation? The German state seized a local German branch of the Russian Gazprom company. In order to secure its energy supplies... which come from Russia. Are they in essence capturing some reserves?

Here is the German explanation of what happened:

https://www-sueddeutsche-de.translate.goog/wirtschaft/erdgas...

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#54

Post by marbu » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 11:59 AM UTC

throwaway4good wrote: post #18

I hope I one day get to visit a Russian nationalized McDonalds; just to fully grasp what deglobalization means ...

But I guess that one aspect of this deglobalization trend is that you won't be able to travel there in the first place until the trend changes.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#55

Post by unmole » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 12:00 PM UTC

sonicggg wrote: post #40

How many years has Merkel remained in power? This awkward situation is all her doing, but still nobody will mention her name. How can one country willingly put its entire energy sector in the hands of a terrorist state, which has been showing signs since 1999 when bombing its own citizens.

The Soviet Union was a reliable energy supplier to (West) Germany even at the height of the Cold War. Ostpolitik was the dominant mode of thinking across party lines. The West has never had any qualms about buying oil and gas from the worst regimes in the world. This outrage over buying from Russia while turning a blind eye to Arab monarchies seems rather perfomative.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#56

Post by throwmeariver1 » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 12:00 PM UTC

logifail wrote: post #20

hugi wrote: post #10

It's nice to see Germany start working towards energy independence. I think it's a crucial factor for both national security and a faster migration to more environmentally friendly energy sources.

> energy independence We use LPG gas (from a tank buried at the bottom of the garden) feeding a gas boiler to heat our house. I'm all for energy independence, and would love to switch to a more environmentally-friendly energy source, but I'm deeply concerned about how much this will cost me, and even if I did have the money, based on reports in local media, getting a heating engineer in would take many months. Half a…

We are in Germany and switched to a heatpump system 4 years ago through incentives over the "Marktanreizprogramm" we got over 45% of the costs reimbursed. It's not even only on the supply chain crisis it's simply ramping up production and training installers because everyone was totally fine with just doing oil and gas for a long time but now everyone scrambles. Shortsightness not only from the state but everyday people and businesses. Thank god for being Links-Grün versifft.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#57

Post by actinium226 » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 12:00 PM UTC

MrRiddle wrote: post #44

actinium226 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just wondering, what specific escalation policies are you talking about?

Pushing NATO expansion in Ukraine and arming them with hi-tech weaponry.

What did Biden/Scholz do on this front? I did see earlier that Merkel had opposed Ukraine in NATO, but I'm not familiar with Scholz's policy on it, or Biden's.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#58

Post by DasIch » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 12:01 PM UTC

recuter wrote: post #39

hugi wrote: post #10

It's nice to see Germany start working towards energy independence. I think it's a crucial factor for both national security and a faster migration to more environmentally friendly energy sources.

Yeah, they got top minds on this. Top. Minds. Nuclear canceled by the Green Party and pre-March went all in on Russian oil and gas.

Gas is used primarily by heating or industrial processes that require it. It can't be meaningfully substituted with anything else in the short term.

To some extent you can't even substitute with gas from other sources because of lack of (connections to) LNG terminals.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#59

Post by ericmay » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 12:02 PM UTC

MrRiddle wrote: post #44

actinium226 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just wondering, what specific escalation policies are you talking about?

Pushing NATO expansion in Ukraine and arming them with hi-tech weaponry.

Ukraine wasn’t armed with hi-tech weaponry until Russia started invading in 2014 and then continued being a bad actor which culminated in January/February 2022 delivery of said weapons at the last second.

NATO expansion is a convenient excuse but fails for two reasons:

1. Baltics are closer to Moscow than Ukraine and right on the border.

2. It is widely acknowledged that the primary driver for Putin is not NATO expansion but actually historical “reasons” he has drummed up. His “histories” are titled things like “On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians”, not “On the Historical Animosity of Russia and NATO” for a reason.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#60

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 12:02 PM UTC

recuter wrote: post #39

hugi wrote: post #10

It's nice to see Germany start working towards energy independence. I think it's a crucial factor for both national security and a faster migration to more environmentally friendly energy sources.

Yeah, they got top minds on this. Top. Minds. Nuclear canceled by the Green Party and pre-March went all in on Russian oil and gas.

> Nuclear canceled by the Green Party

.. after Fukushima. Trading one tail risk for another.

(Germany has oddly lagged in deploying renewables, though. Possibly due to lack of offshore sites, meaning that wind farms have to be deployed against the efforts of NIMBYs)