Basically the argument that there is no such thing as systemic discrimination and the only things that matter are micro-decisions, which are essentially impossible to prove discrimination.
L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitutional
51–60 of 231 posts
Re: L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitutional
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do they? Here is the composition of Ivy League non-international students, courtesy of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30338742 : Ivy League US Ratio Jewish 17.2% 2.4% 7.16 Asian 19.6% 5.3% 3.71 White (incl. Jewish) 50.3% 61.5% 0.82 Hispanic 11.4% 17.6% 0.65 Black 7.8% 12.7% 0.61 White (non-Jewish) 33.1% 59.1% 0.56
Which column identifies how hard people in any of these demographics worked to achieve this outcome?
You want to attribute different outcomes to differences in behavior by race? In this case, you're saying that Jewish students are 11x more hard-working than Hispanic ones, and Asian students are 6x more hard-working than Black ones?
Which other racial disparities do you attribute to differences in behavior?
Re: L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitutional
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty sure the idea is that diversity (of thought and other) itself can improve outcomes, not that anyone is necessarily better or worse at their jobs.
well, if we accept that the success of business is the sum of its parts, then it is implied that the diverse people add something more than others
"The sum of its parts" is a very opaque phrase here. But even without defining it, anyone with work experience has some understanding of the effect of workplace dynamics, environmental factors, office morale, and other intangible influences on one's productivity and hence, the business's success. In other words, there are emergent properties in the calculus of success, and pursuing diversity is one way of trying to control that.
"Diverse" people do not have to be intrinsically better employees, for them to positively affect the business's success.
Re: L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitutional
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I anecdotally recall studies that found organizations with greater diversity deliver better financial results People also tout these studies for getting more women in business leadership. in reality that's a weird argument, women or lgbt or people of color don't need to be better in order to be accepted, they should be accepted by default. Maybe business culture with its rigid and often stupid conventions and deman…
> women or lgbt or people of color don't need to be better in order to be accepted, they should be accepted by default. And yet they are not. Why not? > Maybe business culture with its rigid and often stupid conventions and demands has a lot to do with it. If we look at the history of these groups in the US, Occam's Razor points to simple bigotry as an explanation.
I’ve never had an issue with it.
Well I’m not a woman but as for the rest of it it’s never been an issue.
The only time it’s even been mentioned is that when traveling by bus in Texas in 1999 that I should make sure I take my ID with me when leaving the bus just incase there’s ICE around.
My experience has been that people largely create their own problems, right now I’m in a very catholic country and looking for a cross necklace. It’s just to avoid people asking me if I believe in God which I don’t care to talk about.
Blend in and you’ll have 100x less problems. Your work likely doesn’t care who you’re banging but is going to care if you want to talk about your relationship all day instead of business.
Re: L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitutional
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do they? Here is the composition of Ivy League non-international students, courtesy of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30338742 : Ivy League US Ratio Jewish 17.2% 2.4% 7.16 Asian 19.6% 5.3% 3.71 White (incl. Jewish) 50.3% 61.5% 0.82 Hispanic 11.4% 17.6% 0.65 Black 7.8% 12.7% 0.61 White (non-Jewish) 33.1% 59.1% 0.56
Which column identifies how hard people in any of these demographics worked to achieve this outcome?
Meritocracy is bigoted or rational depending on which groups appear in a particular order. Pick one and be consistent with it. Swapping depending on what pecking order shows up is just more moral relativism to benefit one group while demonizing any others who ever try to do the same. Don't think it's not noticed and remembered for future reference.
Re: L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitutional
#56I have an honest question.. regardless of your gender, sexuality, or race; if you are a competitive person and want to work your way up the corporate ladder to lead, how would you feel if this law (and others like it) existed and "othered"[1] you? If you know the amount of work it takes to get that position, yet instead you're brought in to fulfill some quota, would you be satisfied with that?
I'm asking the people who want to lead based from their hard work and experience. Personally, I'm not sure such a disingenuous existence would sit right with me. I also could not imagine walking into work every day mutually sharing the knowledge my presence in the room is to fill a quota. That seems incredibly dehumanizing. I'm sure some people will disagree, and some people take advantage of what they can. But I'm talking about the day to day existence.
I dont need to read reality counter-arguments, I know they exist. I know how unfair the world is. This is a question for the individual.
[1] Meaning legislatively labeled you apart everyone else.
Re: L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitutional
#57I'm extremely relieved common sense has prevailed here.
Don't be surprised if this just gets moved to stock exchanges where because the cult of "it's a private business, go start your own stock exchange if you don't like it" will give this policy a home where it can be imposed nationwide. NYSE and NASDAQ have already voiced this possibility.
Re: L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitutional
#58This seems like the right decision (and I'm saying this as an LGBT person). The problem is, it just doesn't seem like legislation is the right instrument for promoting diversity in boardrooms. But what is the right mechanism? I anecdotally recall studies that found organizations with greater diversity deliver better financial results, and that public companies have a responsibility to their shareholders. It's importa…
I’ve never really understood the diversity thing. Why should it be more desirable to hire me because I was born in this place or that? Is the native part of me more deserving of a contract than the Latin part? If I was with a guy the night before instead of a woman am I more beneficial to a company? Am I even more valuable on the odd night I’m with a trans person? Am I more beneficial with my Paraguayan passport inst…
If diversity is valuable then:
* in an organization filled with native (whatever that means) people, your Latin heritage would add value. In an organization filled with people with Latin heritage, the native part of you would add value.
* in a company filled with cis-straight men, then diversity being valuable implies that anyone with a different experience would add value.
* in Paraguay, your Canadian experience is more valuable in terms of whatever value diversity brings than it is in Canada. By contrast, in Canada, your Paraguayan experience would offer more value.
Re: L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitutional
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which column identifies how hard people in any of these demographics worked to achieve this outcome?
You want to attribute different outcomes to differences in behavior by race? In this case, you're saying that Jewish students are 11x more hard-working than Hispanic ones, and Asian students are 6x more hard-working than Black ones? Which other racial disparities do you attribute to differences in behavior?
You're the one who responded with the start of a refutation ("Do they?"). It's reasonable to expect you to actually make the argument.
Re: L.A. judge rules LGBT corporate diversity law unconstitutional
#60I have an honest question.. regardless of your gender, sexuality, or race; if you are a competitive person and want to work your way up the corporate ladder to lead, how would you feel if this law (and others like it) existed and "othered"[1] you? If you know the amount of work it takes to get that position, yet instead you're brought in to fulfill some quota, would you be satisfied with that? I'm asking the people w…
This currently does happen, the quota has thus far been in the opposite direction. So how would that underrepresented person feel? The best person to ask may be the people that have been at the receiving end of the existing unwritten quota.