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Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

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Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#51

Post by xerox13ster »

pxc wrote: post #46
andrewingram wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m over 100 hours in, and it’s probably the most sticky gaming experience I’ve had in years. I’ve played most of the recent AAA open world games (Horizon Forbidden West, Far Cry 6, AC Valhalla etc), and Elden Ring is the only one that didn’t quickly descend into feeling like a chore. It’s got a lot of rough edges, but it’s an absolute breath of fresh air; and even my gf says it’s the one she’s enjoyed watching me pl…

I struggled to finish most of the older 3D Zelda titles, but with BotW, I had so much fun just exploring and finding my own things to do that finishing the game was basically an afterthought. IMO it's a model for open world design.

I don't know about you, but I played Zelda games for a story told through a world not a world with no story. The fact that what makes Zelda games Zelda games is an afterthought was series ruining for me. I have no desire to go back to Skyward Sword after playing BOTW, it sucked all wind from my sails

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#52

Post by andrewingram »

pxc wrote: post #46
andrewingram wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m over 100 hours in, and it’s probably the most sticky gaming experience I’ve had in years. I’ve played most of the recent AAA open world games (Horizon Forbidden West, Far Cry 6, AC Valhalla etc), and Elden Ring is the only one that didn’t quickly descend into feeling like a chore. It’s got a lot of rough edges, but it’s an absolute breath of fresh air; and even my gf says it’s the one she’s enjoyed watching me pl…

I struggled to finish most of the older 3D Zelda titles, but with BotW, I had so much fun just exploring and finding my own things to do that finishing the game was basically an afterthought. IMO it's a model for open world design.

I felt BotW had some great ideas, but it didn’t feel as monumental as Ocarina of Time was back in the day. My main criticisms would be that the 4/5 main dungeons were pretty underwhelming, and the puzzle chambers got tedious.

For all its flaws, Elden Ring is packed with “oh wow” moments as you unlock new areas. And the design of the “dungeons” is inspired, they’re so intricate and rich, yet never so lengthy that they outstay their welcome. The main gripe I have with the game is that a number of the enemies and bosses stray from being fun challenges into just being frustrating. I’d have preferred if they’d made the game just a bit smaller and focused on making each boss encounter as memorable as those on the critical questlines.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#53

Post by KTallguy »

Spivakov wrote: post #39

"When it comes to open-world games, I’ve never liked the “fakeness” of the open-world and why games like Skyrim, Horizon, the Assassin’s Creeds, and so on, didn’t interest me." Skyrim and AC are milestones in open-world design around 2010. Sort of mind-blowing if you played them at their initial release. Horizon, though not being top, also has its own merit. I wonder how can an author comment on open world design whe…

You have a good point. I imagine the author tried many of the older open world games of the previous generation, like Farcry 3, Assassin's Creed 2 games, and likely GTA4 and 5. They were incredibly novel for the time.

Now we're at a point where open world games are a dime a dozen, and for good reason: they sell. They're easy to understand, simple to drop in and out of, and many of them now have multiplayer. Rather than aiming to make an immersive world to get caught up in, companies run them as live service games with a drip feed of content―essentially a big sandbox that I can mess around with my friends in. On the flip-side, Breath of the Wild is strictly single player, but it has a lot of fun systemic features that combine in interesting ways (weather, elements, physics, etc), making it feel like an experimental sandbox of its own.

Elden Ring is basically a Souls game with two major innovations for the series:

- Previous games had mostly linear progression. Elden Ring opens up the world to the player and gives them tools to explore without penalty from the start (fast travel, for example).

- Outside of interiors, the player is afforded much more mobility because of their mount. They can outrun almost all overworld enemies, and do hit and run attacks (Interiors are traditional Souls challenges).

These two points, combined with a generous allied NPC summon system, means that the player has a lot more options in how they want to approach the game. In previous Souls titles if you reach a boss you can't defeat, the game is over for you. Elden Ring is structured in a way where you can just go in a different direction, and warp back to that boss when you feel more confident. The environmental storytelling, cryptic NPC dialog, and multiplayer systems are nicely tuned to fit the different affordances Elden Ring provides, but they're not wildly different from previous Souls titles.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#54

Post by bombcar »

mcbutterbunz wrote: post #29
linkdd wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zelda BOTW is just the first NES Zelda for the modern era. Nintendo's open-world is the only open-world I liked. I can't get immersed in GTA's open world because I'm just a random going on a killing spree for 15 minutes then shut the game down. I hated Skyrim, the world is big but empty. There is nothing particular about the landscape that makes me want to "go there". Most of the time, I discovered areas because I wa…

One part of BOTW that really stuck out to me is how close, yet far away things felt. You know how when you look at something through a telephoto lens, things get compressed? They did that really well in BOTW. Things could look close and you could see they were there, but when you start moving towards something, there was actually a lot of ground to cover. It helped make the world seem within reach, yet distant at the…

This is what I call the "World of Warcraft" scale - because WoW was the first game where I really experienced it. The game is compressed and not actually to scale (because nobody wants to spend literally days crossing the map) but it still feels like it is large, and regions are distinct.

Both BotW and WoW also made exploring the "empty" areas rewarding (they're not actually empty, and there are things to find).

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#57

Post by bombcar »

giobox wrote: post #4
libertine wrote: post #2

I hate to be that guy, but it's not fair to dismiss one of the best open world games released in the last 20 years, and which I believe inspired many things on Elden Ring - I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. Just like how you're introduced to the world is literally how BoTW introduces you to it's own world (could it be a homage?), or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button wit…

Agreed - with very little googling you can find the exact same arguments as this article being made in others discussing Breath of the Wild. Lots of people have been rightly celebrating this aspect of BoTW since its release, I found it odd not to mention it as well. It was arguably an even bigger risk for Nintendo to make these radical changes back in 2017, given the sales volume a Zelda game is expected by the busin…

I don't feel BotW was as big a risk as people take it to be - it was basically single-player WoW and was done with the standard Nintendo polish.

I do have to admit it was perfectly aimed at someone like me, who remembers the glory days of video games but no longer has the time or skill to play at a top level.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#58

Post by CSSer »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #50
brazzledazzle wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horizon Forbidden West feels overly polished. Like they brought in the best people to improve things but the end result is like eating 12 courses of the same perfectly prepared chicken breast. It’s good but feels like it’s missing something the guest had. Its story isn’t bad, you feel urgency and care about the characters. There’s powerful moments. It checks the boxes. But this gives the game a dramatically different…

It was kind of an impossible task for Forbidden West to replicate the experience of Zero Dawn.. to me the magic of the first game was entirely based around the discovery of why the world became the way it did. The mystery of the second game is not about the state of the world, but instead one cliffhanger aspect from the last game (what caused Hades to go rogue?). But I’m in complete agreement about with the OP about…

I just picked up Forbidden West but haven't had a chance to play it much yet because of a big work push (no spoilers, please). I completely agree with basically everything here. The game is a blast so far but I'm not sure how they could top the first game so I've been trying to measure my expectations.

I was talking to a coworker about it and the first thing he asked me is, "What about all that amazing gear you get by the end of the first game?" which I think perfectly illustrates your point. They took Aloy to the top and although they managed to make it work so far it does feel a bit awkward, like they may have jumped the shark. But hey I'm just excited to have a cool game to decompress with. I guess in the end it's not that different than a sequel to a movie. People who loved the first will more or less come back to see the second.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#59

Post by Tarq0n »

pmarreck wrote: post #56

I guess I'm finally an old out-of-touch gamer since these FromSoftware fights are too frustrating and I'm still happily playing a (heavily) modded Skyrim

The combat of fromsoft games is genuinely terrible, but this time around you can do some powerleveling strategies and then just enjoy the world.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#60

Post by acomjean »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #50
brazzledazzle wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horizon Forbidden West feels overly polished. Like they brought in the best people to improve things but the end result is like eating 12 courses of the same perfectly prepared chicken breast. It’s good but feels like it’s missing something the guest had. Its story isn’t bad, you feel urgency and care about the characters. There’s powerful moments. It checks the boxes. But this gives the game a dramatically different…

It was kind of an impossible task for Forbidden West to replicate the experience of Zero Dawn.. to me the magic of the first game was entirely based around the discovery of why the world became the way it did. The mystery of the second game is not about the state of the world, but instead one cliffhanger aspect from the last game (what caused Hades to go rogue?). But I’m in complete agreement about with the OP about…

My partner is playing through forbidden west right now. As a spectator it’s fun to watch her explore. It’s actually Amazing to me how they created the worlds. I did enjoy watching zero dawn as well.

The game developers conference releases a lot of great talks. Some on horizon zero dawn where pretty interesting.

https://youtu.be/TawhcWao9ls

Character development:

https://youtu.be/2QRCwY382ck

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