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Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

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Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#51

Post by 999900000999 »

ciprian_craciun wrote: post #11

I am an amateur photographer, and I can't understand why the major camera brands (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, etc.) aren't open at least to the concept of SDK's to control their cameras (let alone opening the lens mount specifications)... It would make their cameras much more flexible and useful, thus perhaps gaining some users that currently use smartphones where it seems there is greater control over and integration…

I strongly suspect it's just easier from a customer support point of view, if you develop an application that causes the camera to overheat and fail.

They really don't want to send you a new camera. The dangerous thing with code controlling hardware directly, is absent safe guards you can easily exceed the mechanical limits of the device.

This is why seriously overclocking a CPU will definitely void the warranty, but at the same time CPUs are often marketed based on how well they handle overclocking.

Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#52

Post by DannyBee »

tomaskafka wrote: post #46
DannyBee wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in consumer places like the US, this is generally illegal. They would not be able to refuse warranty service without showing that your use of the SDK was the reason the camera failed (and the burden would be on them). IE they can't say "Yes, the lens popped out because it was defective, but you used the SDK so tough crap"

Funnily I had exactly this happen with HTC One - yes, your phone camera has degraded inside a warranty period and all photos have purple fade, but since you unlocked the bootloader, you're out of luck, bye.

I've had good luck without having to resort to legal process. But some companies are recalcitrant about it.

Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#54

Post by kahrl »

e2le wrote: post #12
AlexandrB wrote: post #2

> 5.2 YOU AGREE AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, ONCE A PRODUCT IS USED OR CONTROLLED BY OR THROUGH THE DIGITAL IMAGING SYSTEM, SUCH PRODUCT SHALL BE OUT OF SUCH MANUFACTURER-WARRANTY WITH RESPECT TO THE PRODUCT AS SEPARATELY SPECIFIED BY FUJIFILM, FUJIFILM’S AFFILIATES, OR THEIR BUSINESS PARTNERS. Brutal. Consumer protections are lagging badly behind in the software era. It's bad enough that commercial software has broad discl…

Is that even legal? It seems similar to the "warranty void" stickers which are nothing more than an illegal scare tactic that many individuals are conned into believing. https://www.ifixit.com/News/11748/warranty-stickers-are-ille... https://www.ifixit.com/News/15464/warranty-voiding-stickers-...

It's not just a scare tactic, it's how these companies operate. They will illegally refuse to service products they have an obligation to. Until there are massive class action lawsuits, this isn't changing.

Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#55

Post by jchw »

Manuel_D wrote: post #10
AlexandrB wrote: post #2

> 5.2 YOU AGREE AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, ONCE A PRODUCT IS USED OR CONTROLLED BY OR THROUGH THE DIGITAL IMAGING SYSTEM, SUCH PRODUCT SHALL BE OUT OF SUCH MANUFACTURER-WARRANTY WITH RESPECT TO THE PRODUCT AS SEPARATELY SPECIFIED BY FUJIFILM, FUJIFILM’S AFFILIATES, OR THEIR BUSINESS PARTNERS. Brutal. Consumer protections are lagging badly behind in the software era. It's bad enough that commercial software has broad discl…

I think it's totally valid to void warranty when customers modify product software. If users do things like disable temperature limits and mess up their camera, then I see no reason why the company (and be extension, other customers) should foot the bill. Giving away the SDK, regardless of warranty revocation, is a step ahead of most camera manufacturers.

Hardware should be designed to be resilient to broken software to whatever degree possible.

And then still, warranty should cover defects in the face of modified software.

The SDK is not some hack downloaded from some shady website. It’s not a third-party unauthorized tool. This isn’t like, “I transformed my Tesla into an ICE car and then asked them to fix it.” It’s like, “I paired my phone via Bluetooth to the entertainment system and now they won’t fix my defective AC.”

Yes it’s hard to prove that hardware wasn’t broken by broken, unauthorized software modifications. Is there even a small amount of evidence that the warranty burden caused by software modifications is significant? Many stores are happy to cover occasional consumer error even if they’re not actually liable to, and that is SURELY more common than firmware modifications.

Not to mention the directions this could go into. Oh, malware exploited our phones and then modified the system firmware? Sorry, your warranty is void because you ran unofficial firmware, goodbye.

(Obviously, and especially in the last case, if you do break your device on your own, or someone else does, then of course manufacturer warranties do not cover that. That’s a whole different wheelhouse. But your warranty should not be entirely void over software. This is the same as those technically-not-legally-binding “warranty void if removed” stickers everyone unfortunately tolerates.)

Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#56

Post by morpheuskafka »

999900000999 wrote: post #51
ciprian_craciun wrote: post #11

I am an amateur photographer, and I can't understand why the major camera brands (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, etc.) aren't open at least to the concept of SDK's to control their cameras (let alone opening the lens mount specifications)... It would make their cameras much more flexible and useful, thus perhaps gaining some users that currently use smartphones where it seems there is greater control over and integration…

I strongly suspect it's just easier from a customer support point of view, if you develop an application that causes the camera to overheat and fail. They really don't want to send you a new camera. The dangerous thing with code controlling hardware directly, is absent safe guards you can easily exceed the mechanical limits of the device. This is why seriously overclocking a CPU will definitely void the warranty, but…

But in this case, the camera processor still retains final control over the commands from the SDK. This isn't a customer firmware, just a networking interface that simulates pushing buttons and changing menus. The firmware has just as much ability to reject damaging commands as it would if the user was physically entering them.

Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#57

Post by jseliger »

ISL wrote: post #48
ciprian_craciun wrote: post #11

I am an amateur photographer, and I can't understand why the major camera brands (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, etc.) aren't open at least to the concept of SDK's to control their cameras (let alone opening the lens mount specifications)... It would make their cameras much more flexible and useful, thus perhaps gaining some users that currently use smartphones where it seems there is greater control over and integration…

For the bigger players, they miss out on market segmentation. An EOS M with Magic Lantern has a number of features that are featured on Canon's cinema line, for example. The M is perhaps no longer competitive in key ways, but had ML been available with today's level of polish in 2012, it would have eaten into higher-margin products. Fuji is perhaps best poised to enable open development -- their pricing structure is…

In the meantime, everyone except professionals and image-quality obsessives has moved to phone cameras, for which Google and Apple have developed incredible software. It's been obvious for at least ten years that camera makers need to improve their software, and they've not done so, or very minimally done so.

Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#58

Post by carl_dr »

ciprian_craciun wrote: post #11

I am an amateur photographer, and I can't understand why the major camera brands (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, etc.) aren't open at least to the concept of SDK's to control their cameras (let alone opening the lens mount specifications)... It would make their cameras much more flexible and useful, thus perhaps gaining some users that currently use smartphones where it seems there is greater control over and integration…

> I am an amateur photographer, and I can't understand why the major camera brands (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, etc.) aren't open at least to the concept of SDK's to control their cameras (let alone opening the lens mount specifications)...

At least Canon and Nikon do.

I use the Canon and Nikon SDKs in a product for work, and there are plenty of third party applications which allow control of their cameras.

They might not officially offer support for them, but they do keep them updated for new cameras and I have had bugs fixed and questions answered.

There are open source projects using these SDKs - See NINA [0] as just one example.

[0] https://nighttime-imaging.eu/

Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#59

Post by lowbloodsugar »

ciprian_craciun wrote: post #26
ska wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am an amateur photographer, and I can't understand why the major camera brands (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, etc.) aren't open ... How much are you willing to pay for this? I suspect they've all looked at it, and decided the ROI wasn't worth it.

Well, the camera is already ~1.5-2K EUR (without lens), thus I think the price already covers it... But if I must put a price on it, I would say ~100-200 EUR, but then it should come with at least 5 years of updates, and it should work on Linux. :) Also, just supporting some basic features, like shutter and all the exposure settings, shouldn't be that hard... I bet all of these are already implemented, because many c…

I would happily pay a subscription for an iOS app. The usual argument against this is being commodified, but for the vast majority of the market, Canon has already been commodified in the shape of Apple and Samsung phones. They have to compete now on how good their hardware is, but their "stupid" hardware doesn't cut it without smart software. Their time in the broader marketplace is gone. They can get a small amount of marketshare back if they can make their hardware work with iPhones and Galaxies. Possibly just iPhones.

I've got the cash for a great canon camera. I used to carry one around with me all the time. The size isn't what's stopping me. It's the UX.

Re: Using FujiFilm SDK on a Camera Voids Its Warranty

#60

Post by UncleEntity »

Manuel_D wrote: post #28
hexo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not valid. At all. I think it is illegal in some countries and should be illegal everywhere. It was enough of these "practices".

If I swap out my car's engine with a more powerful one and screw up the drivetrain will warranty cover it? If I load broken firmware onto my device that screws it up, why should the company be on the hook? Replacing firmware is no different than replacing any other component. What countries force companies to provide warranty when users load faulty firmware onto devices?

A more apt analogy would be the MVD plugged a dongle into the canbus plug and now your warranty is void.

I mean, this is exactly what they are doing.

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