Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 89 posts

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#51

Post by donw »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #37
cperciva wrote: post #14

I'll say what nobody else seems willing to say: I don't think he deserves it. De mortuis nihil nisi bonum and all that, but let's face it: Steve Jobs was a skilled salesman, nothing more. Let's keep the black bar for people who have actually made a contribution to computing. Edit: 2 minutes and already voted down to -4. Oh well, I knew this would be an unpopular opinion...

I don't see why this is being downvoted. Is it because people disagree? Because that isn't a reason to downvote. It seems accurate to say that Jobs was a salesman. He didn't design or write any software or hardware that I know of.

The downvotes are because his post is highly disrespectful in tone, and frankly ignorant in substance.

It would be just as accurate to call either Einstein or Feynman "just a physics teacher". The title, while technically accurate, fails to fully encompass the magnitude of the work.

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#52

Post by GiraffeNecktie »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #37
cperciva wrote: post #14

I'll say what nobody else seems willing to say: I don't think he deserves it. De mortuis nihil nisi bonum and all that, but let's face it: Steve Jobs was a skilled salesman, nothing more. Let's keep the black bar for people who have actually made a contribution to computing. Edit: 2 minutes and already voted down to -4. Oh well, I knew this would be an unpopular opinion...

I don't see why this is being downvoted. Is it because people disagree? Because that isn't a reason to downvote. It seems accurate to say that Jobs was a salesman. He didn't design or write any software or hardware that I know of.

If you are unaware of Steve Jobs' contribution to both hardware and software you are sadly uninformed, not just about Steve's life and work but about what it takes to create products that can change the world. I don't even own a single Apple product, but he has made everything I use so much better.

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#53

Post by petercooper »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #37
cperciva wrote: post #14

I'll say what nobody else seems willing to say: I don't think he deserves it. De mortuis nihil nisi bonum and all that, but let's face it: Steve Jobs was a skilled salesman, nothing more. Let's keep the black bar for people who have actually made a contribution to computing. Edit: 2 minutes and already voted down to -4. Oh well, I knew this would be an unpopular opinion...

I don't see why this is being downvoted. Is it because people disagree? Because that isn't a reason to downvote. It seems accurate to say that Jobs was a salesman. He didn't design or write any software or hardware that I know of.

Is it because people disagree? Because that isn't a reason to downvote.

It's a common and legitimate reason to downvote on HN, even pg has said so. I once disagreed with this practice but have changed my mind given it has been 'approved'.

And to say Jobs was a salesman because he didn't "design" any hardware is bizarre. He was the driving force behind the Macintosh and involved in almost every decision surrounding it, even if he wasn't the one with the pen at the drafting board. It's like saying Obama is merely a spokesman.

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#54

Post by cperciva »

tptacek wrote: post #44
cperciva wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I acknowledge the impact Apple has had on computing. But they've done that primarily by being very good at marketing, not by being technically innovative.

Colin, this is just not a good time for this.

Sigh. I hate political correctness.

Ok, nil nisi bonum it is; I'll shut up now.

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#55

Post by gizmo »

cperciva wrote: post #25
shinratdr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't even acknowledge the contribution and impact Apple has made on computing in general right now, then you are significantly more far-gone than anyone you have ever accused of being a fanboy. That's just a ridiculous statement. Steve Jobs made no contribution to computing? Complete bullshit.

Oh, I acknowledge the impact Apple has had on computing. But they've done that primarily by being very good at marketing, not by being technically innovative.

Steve pursued excellence. Many people and businesses make something that's barely good enough and then focus on marketing and sales. Steve became insanely successful as a perfectionist, and in the business world that's almost unheard of. I find that very inspirational.

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#56

Post by _delirium »

prodigal_erik wrote: post #49
spydum wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think no one is willing to say it, because no one else was thinking it..

I was thinking it, but to my surprise I find myself disagreeing. I watch with growing dismay as crippled appliances and learned helplessness sweep the industry, but they are in fact what the market currently wants, and with long practice Jobs developed exceptional and laudable skill at not only identifying what the market wants but making a corporate behemoth deliver it in a very focused form.

That's an interesting agreement/disagreement. :)

It seems what you're saying is that Jobs was very good at what he does, but what he does is inimical to hacker culture...

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#58

Post by _delirium »

donw wrote: post #51
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why this is being downvoted. Is it because people disagree? Because that isn't a reason to downvote. It seems accurate to say that Jobs was a salesman. He didn't design or write any software or hardware that I know of.

The downvotes are because his post is highly disrespectful in tone, and frankly ignorant in substance. It would be just as accurate to call either Einstein or Feynman "just a physics teacher". The title, while technically accurate, fails to fully encompass the magnitude of the work.

A closer analogy, for better or worse, might be someone like Carl Sagan.

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#59

Post by cperciva »

sunchild wrote: post #50
cperciva wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I acknowledge the impact Apple has had on computing. But they've done that primarily by being very good at marketing, not by being technically innovative.

You realize how poorly your comments reflect on your product, right? I'll certainly never support Tarsnap after reading this garbage.

I'd rather be poor, friendless, and honest than be rich and have friends only because I refused to air controversial opinions.

I'm glad I don't have any investors or employees who could be hurt, though.

Re: Request PG: Could we please have the black bar out for Steve Jobs?

#60

Post by tptacek »

cperciva wrote: post #54
tptacek wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Colin, this is just not a good time for this.

Sigh. I hate political correctness. Ok, nil nisi bonum it is; I'll shut up now.

Colin, you are now officially the most militantly nerdy person I know. Militant nerdery: bad for empathy, GREAT for cryptosystems. I'm getting our IT guy to sign up for Tarsnap tomorrow.
Post reply on HN