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Petty Thieves Plague San Francisco. ‘These Last Two Years Have Been Insane.’

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Re: Petty Thieves Plague San Francisco. ‘These Last Two Years Have Been Insane.’

#51

Post by WalterBright »

grumple wrote: post #21
WalterBright wrote: post #7

It's coming to Seattle, too. Thieves smashed several of Nordstrom's windows at $50,000 apiece. Small businesses are simply giving up and leaving. I expect it won't be long before storefronts sprout rollup steel shields that extend from the pavement up and cover the complete storefront. That's what businesses do in Brazil. Amazon is abandoning one of its downtown buildings because the employees don't feel safe there a…

Businesses already do that in many American cities.

In Seattle, inside the banks, the tellers are separated from the customers by armored glass and sliding trays.

On the other side of Lake Washington, there are no such shields.

That kinda says it all.

Re: Petty Thieves Plague San Francisco. ‘These Last Two Years Have Been Insane.’

#52

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

QuikAccount wrote: post #16
slg wrote: post #8

> Property crimes declined in San Francisco during the first year of the pandemic, but rose 13% in 2021. There is an ongoing national narrative about how shoplifting and petty theft has been out of control and yet the numbers rarely back up this narrative. A two year stretch in which the numbers dropped then bounced back up by 13% is not "insane" by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't believe the data is accurate simply because most crime of this level is not reported because the victims accurately believe nothing will happen.

That idea-whatever its merits—wouldn’t explain statistics holding steady during a rise in actual crimes. Unless people are drastically less likely to report crime than in the past, for which there is zero evidence.

It’s just used when actual data doesn’t confirm what people want to be true.

Re: Petty Thieves Plague San Francisco. ‘These Last Two Years Have Been Insane.’

#53

Post by robertlagrant »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #9

wage theft still vastly eclipses all retail theft, yet gets far fewer headlines… ask yourself why whenever you see the retail theft reporting hysteria the people stealing from retail have very likely had more of their labor stolen than they’re lifting (it’s likely true for you too) https://fair.org/home/shoplifting-is-big-news-stealing-milli... https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-bigger-problem-fo...

I can't tell from that epi page what the percentages are. Some of it is pressuring people to stay late with no chance of overtime, which is "time theft" not "wage theft", for example.

Re: Petty Thieves Plague San Francisco. ‘These Last Two Years Have Been Insane.’

#54

Post by giantg2 »

the_cat_kittles wrote: post #33
WalterBright wrote: post #7

It's coming to Seattle, too. Thieves smashed several of Nordstrom's windows at $50,000 apiece. Small businesses are simply giving up and leaving. I expect it won't be long before storefronts sprout rollup steel shields that extend from the pavement up and cover the complete storefront. That's what businesses do in Brazil. Amazon is abandoning one of its downtown buildings because the employees don't feel safe there a…

so what do you propose as a solution

I'm not sure there's a single solution.

On one hand we need to ensure people feel like a part of the system and have a chance at a decent job. If you know you don't have a chance then your more likely to act outside the acceptable system. That can help on the prevention side.

On the other side, it's pretty bad that police can't pursue thieves. Perhaps allowing law enforcement to pursue criminals and store/property owners to detain criminals.

So positive encouragement with feeling part of system and hope for a better life, with negative reinforcement of catching and prosecuting offenders (and not having criminal/civil policies that imped that).

Re: Petty Thieves Plague San Francisco. ‘These Last Two Years Have Been Insane.’

#55

Post by throwaway0a5e »

slg wrote: post #45
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why file an insurance claim for petty theft when there's high insurance premiums in the area? Forget it - the time and effort for paperwork, and reporting, and paying premiums is greater than what you'll recover.

The amount being stolen is high enough to be debilating for businesses but low enough not to justify an insurance claim?

Insurance money doesn't come from nowhere, it comes from the people who are paying for a policy. If everybody is losing to the thieves then all insurance is gonna do is convert the lump sum losses into a monthly payment.

Re: Petty Thieves Plague San Francisco. ‘These Last Two Years Have Been Insane.’

#56

Post by armchairhacker »

HN probably won’t like this, but facial recognition might be solution here.

When a thief steals something from a shop or damages property window, the cashiers can’t (and shouldn’t) try to stop them. But they can get a video recording of the evidence. If they upload the recording to a shared database, other security cameras can recognize the criminal and match them with other crimes.

In theory, if someone accidentally steals $3 of goods or something it’s not worth doing anything, so normal people shouldn’t be affected by this. I imagine repeat offenders commit the majority of petty theft and they would be the targets: the recordings would be used to stack up charges and figure out their patterns, and eventually police would be pre-alerted to catch them in the act.

In practice I have no idea. But considering how much companies spend on security systems, and petty theft is a real issue, I bet some are looking into this kind of thing.

Re: Petty Thieves Plague San Francisco. ‘These Last Two Years Have Been Insane.’

#58

Post by giantg2 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #43
the_cat_kittles wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so what do you propose as a solution

Prosecuting petty crime with a (legitimate, funded, and measured effectiveness) diversion path for anyone who isn’t an egregious reoffender. “Stop! Or I’ll say stop again!” Is not a successful strategy. Three strikes is excessively punitive, but neither does allowing rampant crime to continue unabated.

"Three strikes is excessively punitive"

Maybe. It can be pretty easy to commit crimes, but in general felonies are tougher to be accidental (although not impossible). The three strikes law has to do with felonies. If 2 stints in prison haven't deterred them from committing serious crimes, then it's likely they won't change (although a side note is that the current system could be enhanced in terms of rehabilitation efficacy - sort of a separate topic though).

Edit: why so many downvotes?

Re: Petty Thieves Plague San Francisco. ‘These Last Two Years Have Been Insane.’

#59

Post by giantg2 »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #47
giantg2 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the people stealing from retail have very likely had more of their labor stolen than they’re lifting" I'm skeptical of that. Do you have any info on the demographics and work history of the perpetrators? I'd imagine that many are younger and may not have worked enough to have this be true. Even then, I doubt they're stealing from the company that stole from them, and it doesn't make it right.

CVS alone has paid $100 million in wage theft settlements https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/cvs-health A single walgreens theft recently resulted in hundreds of news reports… walgreens’ multi-million wage theft settlement? outrageously less coverage

Ok... your point?

Re: Petty Thieves Plague San Francisco. ‘These Last Two Years Have Been Insane.’

#60

Post by [deleted] »

giantg2 wrote: post #58
toomuchtodo wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prosecuting petty crime with a (legitimate, funded, and measured effectiveness) diversion path for anyone who isn’t an egregious reoffender. “Stop! Or I’ll say stop again!” Is not a successful strategy. Three strikes is excessively punitive, but neither does allowing rampant crime to continue unabated.

"Three strikes is excessively punitive" Maybe. It can be pretty easy to commit crimes, but in general felonies are tougher to be accidental (although not impossible). The three strikes law has to do with felonies. If 2 stints in prison haven't deterred them from committing serious crimes, then it's likely they won't change (although a side note is that the current system could be enhanced in terms of rehabilitation e…

[deleted]
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