Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored • Hacker News Board

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#51

Post by hans1729 » Wed, Mar 16, 2022, 2:29 PM UTC

humanistbot wrote: post #21

hans1729 wrote: post #5

This is ridiculous. We’re seeing innovation EVERYWHERE, and looking back, this will be a golden age for progress (if the species makes it far enough to look back, that is). Think of it like this: we invented personal computers. At the time, only nerds had access to computation. These days, all kinds of scientists just script up things in python. We have how many million people who are able to code? I don’t even care…

You're absolutely right, although on a completely different topic: I'd argue that most of the things you mentioned might not be good for society, especially when combined with the view that most technological development takes place in publicly traded companies whose primary obligation is to maximize quarterly profits. I guess it is innovation when a personalized recommender system is able to pick exactly the right c…

fwiw, that's a very time-local judgement of the progress we made. Objectively, as a species, we solved inter-connectivity, high quality media, etc. - the fact that we currently live in a culture where these means are distributed in the name of wealth will simply be meaningless a couple hundred years down the line.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#52

Post by mschuster91 » Wed, Mar 16, 2022, 2:30 PM UTC

rustybolt wrote: post #25

mschuster91 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, we could be doing so much better as a species, but our best minds are either selling ads or working in finance. Neither of which creates real progress for the masses. Not to mention that the government and the military have all but scrapped their research programs - a lot of the progress of the last decades has fundamental roots there (most notably the Internet). Instead, we let private companies like…

> The problem is, we could be doing so much better as a species, but our best minds are either selling ads or working in finance. Neither of which creates real progress for the masses. So what does create real progress to the masses?

A clear vision of a target. That worked for the removal of lead, for the combat of acid rain and for the ban of CFC gases, and right now many European cities are piloting the vision of a "car free city" with astonishing results.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#53

Post by AlgorithmicTime » Wed, Mar 16, 2022, 2:30 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #20

hans1729 wrote: post #5

This is ridiculous. We’re seeing innovation EVERYWHERE, and looking back, this will be a golden age for progress (if the species makes it far enough to look back, that is). Think of it like this: we invented personal computers. At the time, only nerds had access to computation. These days, all kinds of scientists just script up things in python. We have how many million people who are able to code? I don’t even care…

The problem is, we could be doing so much better as a species, but our best minds are either selling ads or working in finance. Neither of which creates real progress for the masses. Not to mention that the government and the military have all but scrapped their research programs - a lot of the progress of the last decades has fundamental roots there (most notably the Internet). Instead, we let private companies like…

[dead]

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#54

Post by Victerius » Wed, Mar 16, 2022, 2:30 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #39

Victerius wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we really seeing a lot of innovation? The last technological breakthrough was the smartphone. We still don't have space stations that can accommodate more than a half dozen people (spoiler: I want to live on Cloud City). We don't have Moon colonies. We don't have 3D holograms (not the ones that rely on spinning a stick really fast and using a projector). We still don't have a cure for any type of cancer. No warp…

> The last technological breakthrough was the smartphone. That's fairly recent, and pretty damned significant. How often are you expecting such society-changing innovations to occur? Your list of things we don't have that you want is kinda odd. Is there a need for cloned humans? What huge societal improvements do holograms permit? Why is a consumer product with graphene meaningful but the massive innovation in small,…

> kinda odd. Is there a need for cloned humans?

Cloned militaries. Eliminating birth defects. Relieving women from the pain of childbirth.

Also to solve the problem of low birth rates, and allow people to perpetuate themselves. Elon Musk could clone himself and raise his copy to eventually take over his businesses after him.

> What huge societal improvements do holograms permit?

Look man, the Jedi didn't use Slack, did they?

> Why is a consumer product with graphene meaningful but the massive innovation in small, powerful batteries not?

Life is graphene. It's fantastic.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#55

Post by spywaregorilla » Wed, Mar 16, 2022, 2:30 PM UTC

Victerius wrote: post #22

hans1729 wrote: post #5

This is ridiculous. We’re seeing innovation EVERYWHERE, and looking back, this will be a golden age for progress (if the species makes it far enough to look back, that is). Think of it like this: we invented personal computers. At the time, only nerds had access to computation. These days, all kinds of scientists just script up things in python. We have how many million people who are able to code? I don’t even care…

Are we really seeing a lot of innovation? The last technological breakthrough was the smartphone. We still don't have space stations that can accommodate more than a half dozen people (spoiler: I want to live on Cloud City). We don't have Moon colonies. We don't have 3D holograms (not the ones that rely on spinning a stick really fast and using a projector). We still don't have a cure for any type of cancer. No warp…

> We still don't have space stations that can accommodate more than a half dozen people. We don't have Moon colonies. We don't have 3D holograms (not the ones that rely on spinning a stick really fast and using a projector). We still don't have a cure for any type of cancer. No warp drives. No anti-grav. No 200 year life expectancy. No human cloning. No $25 000 flying cars. No mass produced technology or consumer products using graphene.

All of these statements apply to Einstein's era as well.

We do, however, as of the past ten years or so have reuseable rockets (non trivial), inexpensive virtual reality goggles, mRNA vaccines, bioreactor grown meat, on demand access to an enormous quantity of humanity's artistic creations at any time, nearly-out-of uncanny valley digital human replicas, self driving cars with a low probability of killing you getting from point A to point B, and, yes, some really cool video games.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#56

Post by alde » Wed, Mar 16, 2022, 2:31 PM UTC

The article assumes there is an infinite linear pool of ideas that we can take from. This is not the case. All-encompassing models like general relativity, the standard model and quantum mechanics can only be discovered once, same goes for music and other old fields. Not to comment on minor errors in the article like quoting Olaf Spengler instead of Oswald Spengler.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#57

Post by michaelscott » Wed, Mar 16, 2022, 2:31 PM UTC

Victerius wrote: post #22

hans1729 wrote: post #5

This is ridiculous. We’re seeing innovation EVERYWHERE, and looking back, this will be a golden age for progress (if the species makes it far enough to look back, that is). Think of it like this: we invented personal computers. At the time, only nerds had access to computation. These days, all kinds of scientists just script up things in python. We have how many million people who are able to code? I don’t even care…

Are we really seeing a lot of innovation? The last technological breakthrough was the smartphone. We still don't have space stations that can accommodate more than a half dozen people (spoiler: I want to live on Cloud City). We don't have Moon colonies. We don't have 3D holograms (not the ones that rely on spinning a stick really fast and using a projector). We still don't have a cure for any type of cancer. No warp…

> We make smaller chips, miniaturized computers, made fancier looking user interfaces, made rocket boosters reusable, and video game graphics are approaching photorealism. Great.

Damn.. I'm not sure what more you are wanting given the amount of time that has passed? You wanted humanity to go from its first flight and engine-powered vehicle to warp drives, cured cancer and Moon colonies in less than 200 years?

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#58

Post by entropi » Wed, Mar 16, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

hans1729 wrote: post #5

This is ridiculous. We’re seeing innovation EVERYWHERE, and looking back, this will be a golden age for progress (if the species makes it far enough to look back, that is). Think of it like this: we invented personal computers. At the time, only nerds had access to computation. These days, all kinds of scientists just script up things in python. We have how many million people who are able to code? I don’t even care…

Agreed with all your points, except for this one:

> b) will continue to bloom for the foreseeable future

I don't think this will be the case. True, it was/is a golden age, but I don't see how this demonstrably unsustainable machine can go on fore the "foreseeable future". Unless we get a huge breakthrough on the order of fusion, I don't see this golden age going on more than 50 or so more years.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#59

Post by huetius » Wed, Mar 16, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

I humbly submit Einstein’s own words: “The perfection of means and the confusion of ends seems to be our problem.”

The author rightly identifies the educational impotence of our society as a major problem, but his inability to address it as anything other than a question of technique leaves the problem unperturbed.

Re: Geniuses of the past were aristocratically tutored

#60

Post by Victerius » Wed, Mar 16, 2022, 2:33 PM UTC

michaelscott wrote: post #57

Victerius wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we really seeing a lot of innovation? The last technological breakthrough was the smartphone. We still don't have space stations that can accommodate more than a half dozen people (spoiler: I want to live on Cloud City). We don't have Moon colonies. We don't have 3D holograms (not the ones that rely on spinning a stick really fast and using a projector). We still don't have a cure for any type of cancer. No warp…

> We make smaller chips, miniaturized computers, made fancier looking user interfaces, made rocket boosters reusable, and video game graphics are approaching photorealism. Great. Damn.. I'm not sure what more you are wanting given the amount of time that has passed? You wanted humanity to go from its first flight and engine-powered vehicle to warp drives, cured cancer and Moon colonies in less than 200 years?

Yes.