I feel that the Russian identity has been dealt a fatal blow. The load-bearing pillar of the Russian identity is the idea that we are a nation of defenders, who fought off the biggest invasion in history. We defend, not intrude. If you remember history, there was another guy who attacked a slavic country, in the morning, without declaring war, hoping for a blitzkrieg. We are that guy now. I thought about renouncing m…
I'm sorry but you can't tell me you weren't aware of wars in Afganistan or Chechnya? And I'm pretty sure Lomonosov and Dostoyevsky don't care about what passport if any you have, please renounce it already and stop this soppy drivel.
Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce
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Re: Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce
#52I feel that the Russian identity has been dealt a fatal blow. The load-bearing pillar of the Russian identity is the idea that we are a nation of defenders, who fought off the biggest invasion in history. We defend, not intrude. If you remember history, there was another guy who attacked a slavic country, in the morning, without declaring war, hoping for a blitzkrieg. We are that guy now. I thought about renouncing m…
> a nation of defenders Nonsense. Russian history is full of invasions. That is how empires are created, and that is their mode of existence.
1. Identity is an internal belief, which may or may not correpsond to the facts.
2. Factually, Russia never was a country of peaceful defenders (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia).
3. During the post-WW2 Soviet era, the main focus of internal propaganda was Peace and Victory over the nazi Germany. It is during that time the identity of a "peaceful defender" was formed and ingrained into the Soviet psyche (and it survived Czechoslovakia and Afghanistan). Later, this identity was reinforced by Putin.
4. I still know a lot of people in Russia who hold that identity. I would still call it a national identity.
5. After the Ukraine war that identity can no longer be held without denial or serious cognitive dissonance.
6. Many people will go into denial, and many people will have an identity crisis.
7. However, "That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be".
Re: Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce
#53I feel that the Russian identity has been dealt a fatal blow. The load-bearing pillar of the Russian identity is the idea that we are a nation of defenders, who fought off the biggest invasion in history. We defend, not intrude. If you remember history, there was another guy who attacked a slavic country, in the morning, without declaring war, hoping for a blitzkrieg. We are that guy now. I thought about renouncing m…
I'm sorry but you can't tell me you weren't aware of wars in Afganistan or Chechnya? And I'm pretty sure Lomonosov and Dostoyevsky don't care about what passport if any you have, please renounce it already and stop this soppy drivel.
> I'm sorry but you can't tell me you weren't aware of wars in Afganistan or Chechnya?
I am. See my "untangle" response in this thread.Re: Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce
#54As native speaker of Russian language, large part of my Russian identity was the fact, that I was raised in household of WW2 veteran(I was born and lived in one of the ex-Soviet republics, not in Russia). I always viewed Russian army as liberators. In the light of current events, this part of me took a huge blow and I'm not sure, I will ever reconcile. Russian army that is in Ukraine are bunch of untrained, uncoordin…
But more seriously, Z was for Zapad troops which were from the Western military regions (Belgorod, Rostov barrack setc), others had V for Vostok from the Siberian troops (Novosibirsk, etc). The O is for LDPR/DNR/Crimea troops IIRC.
Re: Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce
#55I feel that the Russian identity has been dealt a fatal blow. The load-bearing pillar of the Russian identity is the idea that we are a nation of defenders, who fought off the biggest invasion in history. We defend, not intrude. If you remember history, there was another guy who attacked a slavic country, in the morning, without declaring war, hoping for a blitzkrieg. We are that guy now. I thought about renouncing m…
That identity has already been built on a lie. Russia invaded Poland on September 17th 1939 after secret deal with Germany to split Polish territory they agreed on before the war even started. Then Russians cried foul when the bigger bully betrayed them. Unfortunately allies could not let Nazis overrun Soviets because with access to oil fields Nazis could make Europe their fortress. And so Soviet crimes were overlook…
Re: Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce
#56Central to Putanism specifically and even Russia now generally, there is a strong belief that Russia beat the Nazis, Russia can beat anyone, and Russia is superior. Limitless expansion of its borders is considered Russia's right, ergo anyone who doesn't want to be Russified is a Nazi, and Ukraine rejecting Russia means they are Nazis.
I think Western media has been too dismissive of the Russian belief Nazis are running rampant, portraying it mainly as divorced from reality. And not making the connection just how totally incompatible this worldview is in the post-WW2 and U.N. charter system to which Russia is a signatory. I seriously think we are witnessing the end of that post-WW2 era, back to "might makes right".
Re: Hi, I’m Russian. Ukraine and Russia is a story of a divorce
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
> a nation of defenders Nonsense. Russian history is full of invasions. That is how empires are created, and that is their mode of existence.
I think the key part is the first part of the sentence you clipped: “the load-bearing pillar of the Russian identity”. Self-image is not an academic historical treatise and most nationalities have parts they like to emphasize more than others — for example, as Americans we love to talk about democracy and freedom a lot more than slavery / Jim Crow, or whether all of our military endeavors hold up as well as WWII. I d…
There are certainly dark corners that remain in the American psyche expressly because we keep kicking that can down the road. This is how the confederacy and southern identity became intertwined, because it wasn't and still isn't made completely socially unacceptable. Let's not forget the Northern states were damn racist, they just drew the line at slavery. And before all the bodies were buried, before the constitution amended to make slavery illegal, the top Confederates, traitors to the United States, were forgiven.
Instead of the United States completely destroying a mortal enemy that tried to destroy the United States, Lincoln, Grant, Johnson, forgave. Grant should not have sat in a chair with Lee at Appomattox. Robert Lee and Jefferson Davis should have been executed for treason. As well as the all of the officers. The constitution of the Confederacy unquestionably stated slavery to be a permanently protected institution in perpetuity. But let's face it, the North didn't have the moral character to do what was necessary. Northern states were too sympathetic to the ingrained national racism.
The fact is, black folks deserved then and still now the promise of a country that did not and does not exist. Only in some nascent sense does it hopefully exist today. But there has never been a reconciliation, and even in 2022 this country does not live up to its ideals, promises, laws - not to black Americans, and not to native Americans.
This is how you get a president of the United States in 2016 who maliciously and intentionally destroyed the livelihood of a black man who takes a knee to try and make white folks aware of the fact this country doesn't stand for everyone. And I am as shocked and appalled at how even NFL management and owners could just look the other way and go along with that, as I am shocked and appalled that signatories to the U.N. charter that insists only defensive wars against imminent attack are legal, and that wars of aggression to expand borders are the supreme international crime - I did trust Russia and China more than I should have. They're really looking like they're going to be outside the UN charter system of international law. That's really dreadful.