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We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

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Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#51

Post by pjmlp »

Gareth321 wrote: post #40
taurath wrote: post #11

Having taken a $30 Uber to drive 15 minutes lately, when a taxi would’ve cost $10 or so, I don’t think they’ve ultimately created much value with their rideshare service. They’ve basically just moved the entities around, and now it takes a lot longer to get a taxi. Ultimately this is an era largely of the conglomerate, it doesn’t matter who you are unless you’re one of the big fishes. Media, Advertising, etc. Its no…

>Having taken a $30 Uber to drive 15 minutes lately, when a taxi would’ve cost $10 or so, I don’t think they’ve ultimately created much value with their rideshare service. They’ve basically just moved the entities around, and now it takes a lot longer to get a taxi. You forget just how terrible the taxi industry was prior to Uber. I would walk for miles rather than take a taxi. I would gladly pay 2-3x more for an Ube…

I never had an issue with taxis in most European countries I have lived on, so reaching 50 it is quite a number of taxis, and still manage to this day without ever having taken an uber, which I refuse by principle due to the way their treat employees.

Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#52

Post by Barrin92 »

cuteboy19 wrote: post #42
Barrin92 wrote: post #25

One of the most interesting insights to me about this dynamic of profitless, innovation lacking platforms came from reading a Varoufakis piece. To him the reason platforms exist as they do right now is because they constitute a fundamental shift away from market capitalism to what he calls techo-feudalism. Instead of thinking of companies like Uber as selling software and paying wage labour to generate profit, it mak…

The 3rd paragraph is incongruous with the 4th paragraph. If they are not generating profits then how come we accuse them of extracting rent and "maintaining techno-peasants"? The major characteristic of feudalism was that power centers deteriorated and power was distributed to local lords insted of central kings. So how is having a single gigantic company more like feudalism? Lastly, why come up with such convoluted…

> If they are not generating profits then how come we accuse them of extracting rent

because those are not the same thing. Feudalists don't extract surplus wage labor, they extract direct tribute from their subjects, and just like that the entire value of Facebook say, is in what its users produce on its platform. That experience is the actual rent they collect. Ever wondered why all of this stuff is free?

And power is deteriorating. Away from the state, which played a central role in organizing and managing the traditional market economy towards these private spheres of influence of which the principal unit is the tech-firm.

Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#53

Post by DantesKite »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #15

Fully agree with this. It seems like so many of the apps that come to dominate just make up for shortcomings unique to the US that then, with money, take over the rest of the west for no good reason other than scale to get 25 people at the top of those companies rich. I’ve never seen the need for Uber. Taxis have never been an issue in the UK and the most successful firms in the city I lived when Uber was starting ou…

No post body was provided.

Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#54

Post by easytiger »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #15

Fully agree with this. It seems like so many of the apps that come to dominate just make up for shortcomings unique to the US that then, with money, take over the rest of the west for no good reason other than scale to get 25 people at the top of those companies rich. I’ve never seen the need for Uber. Taxis have never been an issue in the UK and the most successful firms in the city I lived when Uber was starting ou…

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Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#55

Post by gervwyk »

servytor wrote: post #32

I just find it really weird that there wasn't a thinktank in 2005 or so, that said "Okay, what are the next big phone applications?" and invented Uber and a few others. What is the point of these thinktanks if they can't predict 3 years ahead along our current technological advancement curve?

I have friends in South Africa who built a small business similar to uber in 2004 on SMS and future phones. Worked really well, however, at the end of the day an idea does not build a business like uber.

Extremely well executed startups does, which of course requires a team in just the right milieu and timing.

Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#56

Post by Lascaille »

servytor wrote: post #32

I just find it really weird that there wasn't a thinktank in 2005 or so, that said "Okay, what are the next big phone applications?" and invented Uber and a few others. What is the point of these thinktanks if they can't predict 3 years ahead along our current technological advancement curve?

>What is the point of these thinktanks

They create research that is used by politicians to justify them creating a policy they'd already decided to create for political reasons. They manufacture consent.

What did Chuck Colson want to do to the Brookings institution again?

Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#57

Post by whitepaint »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #15

Fully agree with this. It seems like so many of the apps that come to dominate just make up for shortcomings unique to the US that then, with money, take over the rest of the west for no good reason other than scale to get 25 people at the top of those companies rich. I’ve never seen the need for Uber. Taxis have never been an issue in the UK and the most successful firms in the city I lived when Uber was starting ou…

You click a button, someone comes to pick you up in a few minutes. You know exactly how much you are gonna pay. Even if you are just a tourist. Uber (and other applications like it) is so much more superior to taxis that you cannot even compare them (unless you want to frivolously whine). They brought insane amount of innovation and I am so thankful for that.

Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#58

Post by CryptoPunk »

In these conditions, it makes sense to pump as much money as possible into an early Amazon, Google or Facebook.

However this seemingly happy story has a few important downsides. First, to a large extent these technologies do not create new markets as much as they disrupt or displace old ones, which is one reason why productivity gains are so meager.

No. They displace old industries by introducing technologies and processes that made them more productive. People use them because they provide a higher quality service at a lower price.

And all three of the examples he provided: Amazon, Google and Facebook, have been enormously innovative, and created entirely new markets. I could write a long essay on the markets that had their emergence faciliated by any one of the three companies listed.

What's worrying is that such an obviously misinformed article could be held in such high esteem by so many on HN.

Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#59

Post by roenxi »

It is worth considering that the problem is too much debt and that people are missing the forest for the trees. Gambits like Uber still aren't profitable or sustainable, and we have no idea what sort of market it'll be working in once it tries to make money. By the books, it appears that Uber's "investors" have been burned quite badly. Putting in the hard work to build a profitable business is less rewarding by comparison to making a high-growth low-value-add play and trying to get money off people with access to big lines of credit.

And, ranting, it is still quite possible that Amazon/Google/Facebook are going to lose the super profits in the long term. Which to me means 2030+, 2040+ as the market matures. Google is probably a bit more secure in that they have to commit suicide to lose money (which they will eventually, every company gets bad managers sooner or later). AWS on the other hand faces a risk of being chipped at from all angles by specialised providers. They do not have a magical spell that can resist the market moving towards the marginal cost of production. Facebook lives in a world where staying power is the exception not the norm, they came after numerous other competitors that fell apart under the complexity of managing social networks. They are all but guaranteed to fall in time too, they are in a delicate position where it takes one bad CEO/Director of Misinformation or some Chinese upstart that won't sell out and the whole thing could fall apart.

Re: We must return to an economy fueled by innovation, rather than disruption

#60

Post by simonbarker87 »

DantesKite wrote: post #53
simonbarker87 wrote: post #15

Fully agree with this. It seems like so many of the apps that come to dominate just make up for shortcomings unique to the US that then, with money, take over the rest of the west for no good reason other than scale to get 25 people at the top of those companies rich. I’ve never seen the need for Uber. Taxis have never been an issue in the UK and the most successful firms in the city I lived when Uber was starting ou…

Quoted post unavailable.

Excellent addition to the discussion there. My point of view still stands. I just don’t see how it’s better than the existing taxi systems I used in my country pre Uber. One even had an app showing where their taxis were and you could hail one with a tap of a button.
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