I agree strongly with the advice on the page. But more interesting is the fact that the author seems to have registered a domain for just this one piece of advice. I know there are other examples (some are linked) but this wouldn’t scale for me. I have so much crucial wisdom to share that the registration fees would kill me.
Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)
51–60 of 391 posts
Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)
#52> ..which is just lazy. If you're not willing to do the work to solve your problem, why should we? Eh, don't think I agree here. The initial ask is low-effort but so is the initial response expected ("I could help, what's up?"). It seems fair to want to aim for something like: A: low effort ask B: low effort response A: high effort ask now that you know someone's listening B: high effort response to avoid things like…
A: high effort ask
Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)
#53> ..which is just lazy. If you're not willing to do the work to solve your problem, why should we? Eh, don't think I agree here. The initial ask is low-effort but so is the initial response expected ("I could help, what's up?"). It seems fair to want to aim for something like: A: low effort ask B: low effort response A: high effort ask now that you know someone's listening B: high effort response to avoid things like…
In an asynchronous medium like Slack or IRC, the effort _isn't_ wasted, because the question will stay there, allowing people to see it later who weren't even around when the question was first asked.
Just like you don't email someone saying "Hey" waiting for a reply before you ask your question.
Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)
#54This reminds me a lot about when people ask "Hey, are you doing anything Saturday afternoon?"
Which is trap.
Because if you say "no" then you don't have a polite excuse to decline to help someone move houses, troubleshoot a fiber install, or go for a hike.
The polite way to ask is "hey, can you help me move on Saturday? I have a truck and 3 others already."
Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)
#55This feels like one of those internet rules that stems from a neurodiverse IRC-type crowd Neurotypical people use this sort of social foreplay as a way to handshake a conversation[1], where the tech types want an input/output process devoid of mood and feeling It is silly and quite time wasting online too, but it's what they need to feel comfortable asking you questions. I figure if they need to adapt to some of my q…
> It is silly and quite time wasting online too, but it's what they need to feel comfortable asking you questions... No necessarily. Asking "Any Java experts around?" takes little effort, while formulating a question for a Java expert could take significant effort. A "no" response for the first question could save everyone from wasting their time with the second.
This might be the rationale, but it's fundamentally very wrong. In the vast majority of "programming/tech discussion/help" spaces I frequent, the response to this is almost always going to be: "Maybe, ask your question."
It turns out that, a significant percentage of the time, the "preconditions" for the question are either: - Way too specific (i.e. yes, even a non java expert knows what "nullpointerexception" means) - Not nearly specific enough (i.e. no, I know Java but your issue is from a specific library with 1 page of documentation from the 90's)
This, in my opinion, is exactly what makes the 'asking to ask' so frustrating. It's impossible to know if I can answer your question without actually knowing what the question is. And if I ask what the question is, now I'm the one uncomfortable with the situation when it turns out to be something I can't help with.
edit: I also feel like it's worth noting, I'm aware that formulating a good question takes time and effort; however, in the "asking for help" / "giving help" scenario, it's very much common courtesy to do the most you can to enable people to help you. We want to help! But please ask a good question. (I do totally understand that asking good questions is a hard thing to learn, though! I started out asking very poor questions and slowly learned over time.)
Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)
#56> ..which is just lazy. If you're not willing to do the work to solve your problem, why should we? Eh, don't think I agree here. The initial ask is low-effort but so is the initial response expected ("I could help, what's up?"). It seems fair to want to aim for something like: A: low effort ask B: low effort response A: high effort ask now that you know someone's listening B: high effort response to avoid things like…
I disagree with a "high effort ask" being a wasted effort if no-one's around.
Just because no-one's around now doesn't mean someone won't be around later. And writing down your thoughts can often be enough to crystalise your thinking to the point of having a new idea about a solution. So, you've either solved your problem for yourself, or you can share it with the person that does help in the end.
If you're asking for help it's useful to show where you're up to in your thinking and giving details on what you've tried already.
Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)
#57It is even worse when it comes from an inept salesperson. Asking to ask is just bigger annoyance. Worse yet, it is a terrible sales method because you'll never get to your pitch.
Intro, yes. Asking permission, no.
Use the set up to frame the discussion. Only ask questions you know the answer to. Make them answer in the affirmative repeatedly. Why give an opening for rejection at all?
Being interrupted by a sales call is bad enough. Being interrupted by someone who botches the pitch on a product I would never want and will never hear about due to ineptitude is a face palm. Humans never cease to amaze me. Not only will I marvel at the fail, but I'll write useless comments about it later.
Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)
#58This feels like one of those internet rules that stems from a neurodiverse IRC-type crowd Neurotypical people use this sort of social foreplay as a way to handshake a conversation[1], where the tech types want an input/output process devoid of mood and feeling It is silly and quite time wasting online too, but it's what they need to feel comfortable asking you questions. I figure if they need to adapt to some of my q…
For me it's not because I want an input/output type conversation, it's because I want to maintain asynchronous conversation. If I reply "I'm fine thanks how are you" then you know I'm here and looking, you've forced me to into a synchronous conversation and now I will appear rude if I don't immediately answer your "I just have a quick question" If you just post your question upfront, I can read it and prioritize it m…
Because the method is indeed async, you can say "I'm fine thanks how are you" with no future expectation of immediate reply. It's okay. If they wanted sync, they would've asked for a phone call.
But, suppose you switch to sync. They ask a question. It indeed isn't important to you right now. Tell them you're busy with other tasks, and you'll reply later. It isn't rude, we all frequently work with others that have a lot on their plate.
Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)
#59This feels like one of those internet rules that stems from a neurodiverse IRC-type crowd Neurotypical people use this sort of social foreplay as a way to handshake a conversation[1], where the tech types want an input/output process devoid of mood and feeling It is silly and quite time wasting online too, but it's what they need to feel comfortable asking you questions. I figure if they need to adapt to some of my q…
> It is silly and quite time wasting online too, but it's what they need to feel comfortable asking you questions... No necessarily. Asking "Any Java experts around?" takes little effort, while formulating a question for a Java expert could take significant effort. A "no" response for the first question could save everyone from wasting their time with the second.
> Asking "Any Java experts around?" takes little effort
which is precisely why this is annoying: it's asking for a social commitment without putting any effort in. It also reaches for the top shelf for no reason. Does the person's question really need a Java "expert"? Probably not.
> A "no" response for the first question could save you from wasting your time with the second.
Arguably if they were to find help _anywhere_ they would benefit from articulating their question in a clear and concise way. Let alone the high probability that through writing the question they might answer their own question, because we're all humans.
Re: Don't ask to ask, just ask (2019)
#60One step further, don't start a conversation with "X is broken, can you help me fix it?"
Tell me what you did so far, actual behavior and expected behavior. Pragmatically speaking, I get a lot of coworkers asking questions (like several per day) so if your question is formulated poorly, it has a very high chance of slipping through the cracks simply because the easier to answer questions will take priority.