Similar to the narcissist's prayer: That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
Yep, sounds like Dad.
Kettle Logic
51–60 of 85 posts
Re: Kettle Logic
#52Similar to the narcissist's prayer: That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
That seems more like "argument in the alternative" (see the comment by a_shovel).
Re: Kettle Logic
#53Obviously this “logic” is bad in the examples. But the brain is continually weighing contradictory branches of subjectivity. If multiple contradictory paths all arrive at the same conclusion, it’s rational to weigh that as evidence in some Bayesian way.
Re: Kettle Logic
#54There is a joke I love that illustrates the concept: "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my client was nowhere near the scene of the murder, he didn't mean to pull the trigger, and that son-of-a-bitch had it coming!"
These three can in fact be all true at once, so the arguments are consistent, unlike kettle logic.
"Didn't mean to pull the trigger" does not imply the defendant could pull the trigger.
Re: Kettle Logic
#55It seems that this is a sort of "dual" to what's called "Argument in the alternative" [1], which I've seen confused for kettle logic more often than I've seen kettle logic used itself. It's a subtle distinction. Argument in the alternative considers multiple different possibilities as hypotheticals in order to rule them all out, but isn't that kind of what kettle logic does as well? Can a kettle logic argument be eas…
The "even if" bit from your link is helpful to consider. Kettle logic: 1. I wasn't there. 2. I was there but had no motive. 3. I was there, had motive, but had no means. Argument in the alternative: 1. I wasn't there. 2. Even if I was there, I had no motive. 3. Even if I was there and had motive, I had no means. The first makes three conflicting statements. The second makes 3 consecutive arguments: I have an alibi, b…
I think it's even better if the burden of proof is placed on the prosecution (as it should be):
1. The prosecution must prove I returned the kettle in a damaged state (they can't).
2. They must prove I received the kettle in an undamaged state (they can't).
3. They must prove I received the kettle at all (they can't).
Re: Kettle Logic
#56There is a joke I love that illustrates the concept: "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my client was nowhere near the scene of the murder, he didn't mean to pull the trigger, and that son-of-a-bitch had it coming!"
And there's the notorious "That’s Not Happening and It’s Good That It Is".
I think the honest version of this kind of argument is helpful in some cases though. Not everybody agrees on the same set of the facts, and sometimes the conclusion one is arguing for is true regardless.
Re: Kettle Logic
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
This line is actually used in one of the linked articles[1], "Argument in the alternative", which apparently does not constitute kettle logic. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_in_the_alternative
I saw that on wikipedia, but I disagree. I think the way that he says each part of his statement implies that the previous part is wrong. So the parts are inconsistent with each other from his comedic perspective: - I didn't do it. - (I did it, but) nobody saw me do it. - (You saw me do it, but) you can't prove anything. The statements alone, not considering the perspective of the speaker in parentheses, don't strict…
"Nobody saw me do it" and "I didn't do it" aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, if I don't do something, then by definition nobody saw me do it.
Re: Kettle Logic
#58Similar to the narcissist's prayer: That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
Thanks, I hate it.
This is just a quick reminder to everyone to check yourself and make sure you aren't falling into the trap of thinking like this, I know it happens to me occasionally.
And there's very little I've seen that damages relationships[0] more.
[0] All kinds, not just romantic.
Re: Kettle Logic
#59There is a joke I love that illustrates the concept: "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my client was nowhere near the scene of the murder, he didn't mean to pull the trigger, and that son-of-a-bitch had it coming!"
What would that be in programmer speak? The intern had no write access to the production database, he didn't mean to do the commit, and our network engineers had it coming?
I can't reproduce it; you're using it wrong; it's a feature, not a bug.
Re: Kettle Logic
#60There is a joke I love that illustrates the concept: "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my client was nowhere near the scene of the murder, he didn't mean to pull the trigger, and that son-of-a-bitch had it coming!"
See also: "It Was A Long Time Ago And It Never Happened Anyway"
https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300192377/it-was-long-ti...