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It’s time to admit quantum theory has reached a dead end

nautil.us

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Re: It’s time to admit quantum theory has reached a dead end

#51

Post by petmon »

renox wrote: post #24
tus666 wrote: post #3

Yes, but go back to philosophy not math. All the evidence suggests the "particle" interpretation of QM is simply wrong, that light or energy really is just a self propagating wave, which explains the double slit experiment cleanly, and is not incompatible with energy levels or quantization if formulated correctly. Experiments that claim to show light consists of particles need to be reassessed wearing a philosopher's…

Yes, I never understood why light was considered 'particles' :-( As far as I understand it is because light can only be emitted by atoms with discrete energy levels, but (IMHO again) light is emitted by atoms with discrete energy levels because it is emitted when electrons jumps from one energy level to another and that the possible trajectory of electrons around the atoms aren't continuous, I don't see how this is r…

We have several single photon sources, including nitrogen vacancy centers and quantum dots. Nobody has ever produced a "half-photon source" though.

Re: It’s time to admit quantum theory has reached a dead end

#53

Post by esteth »

pshc wrote: post #35
8bitsrule wrote: post #28

Even on the macro level there are lots of tricky questions. A bar magnet is surrounded by magnetic flux lines. Apparently it takes no energy to maintain that magnetic field. If I heat the bar in boiling water for long enough, it becomes demagnetized. On the macro level there's no visible/measureable change in the bar. We need a lot of magnification to see that the 'particles are no longer aligned'. On the other hand,…

The energy comes from the incredible magnetic force spent to align the atoms when the magnet was created, and it will be slowly exhausted over time.

Why would it be exhausted over time? When things come close to the magnet it uses its potential energy to pull them.

When some force acts to remove those objects from the magnetic field, that energy is converted into potential in the magnet again.

Are you claiming that the alignment of the magnet will fade slowly over time when the field is interacted with, more quickly than it would if it were left on a proverbial shelf for millions of years?

Re: It’s time to admit quantum theory has reached a dead end

#54

Post by spiantino »

8bitsrule wrote: post #28

Even on the macro level there are lots of tricky questions. A bar magnet is surrounded by magnetic flux lines. Apparently it takes no energy to maintain that magnetic field. If I heat the bar in boiling water for long enough, it becomes demagnetized. On the macro level there's no visible/measureable change in the bar. We need a lot of magnification to see that the 'particles are no longer aligned'. On the other hand,…

This is a good question to bring to /r/askphysics . It's pretty simple, and isn't the kind of problem with quantum mechanics that the article is referring to.

Re: It’s time to admit quantum theory has reached a dead end

#55

Post by cogman10 »

geijoenr wrote: post #5

For some time already we are in an "epicyclean phase" of physics, trapped by the extraordinary predictive success of Quantum Electrodynamics and still using mathematical methods devised in the 19th century (variational calculus). This has lead us to the current situation, with extremely complicated theories at the limit of human understanding that bear no new results. It will take a modern day Copernicus to come up w…

That makes the assumption that there exists a simpler view of physics that will result in more productivity.

IMO, some of the smartest people that have ever lived, live right now. Mainly because we have more humans alive than ever before. The amount of brain power working to find these simpler models is breath taking, yet we aren't seeing the elegant simple solutions fall out like we once did. I don't think that's a problem with the ingenuity, I think that's a problem with the problem.

Re: It’s time to admit quantum theory has reached a dead end

#56

Post by kurthr »

xyzzyz wrote: post #50
aaaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Iron filings fly up because of the principle of minimum potential energy. They can lose potential energy by moving closer to the magnet, so they do. No energy is gained - potential energy is converted to kinetic energy, then heat when they hit the magnet.

Your answer is basically a tautology: if we observe work being performed, there must be some potential energy being converted, that’s what the potential energy is; the ability to perform work. The real question rather is: why doesn’t the same thing happen when I get a stick close to wood shavings? How is energy stored in a magnet in a way that is not stored in a stick?

Because stick field is not a thing? Well, I guess there's gravitational fields, but those are not dipoles and they're really weak. Magnetic fields of large aggregates aren't simple to model, and there are some very complex systems, but individually they are very simple and well modeled.

Re: It’s time to admit quantum theory has reached a dead end

#57

Post by ricksunny »

lacker wrote: post #47
geijoenr wrote: post #5

For some time already we are in an "epicyclean phase" of physics, trapped by the extraordinary predictive success of Quantum Electrodynamics and still using mathematical methods devised in the 19th century (variational calculus). This has lead us to the current situation, with extremely complicated theories at the limit of human understanding that bear no new results. It will take a modern day Copernicus to come up w…

It will take a modern day Copernicus We might already have a modern day Copernicus. Could be string theory, could be something else. The problem is that we don't really have any experimental data that can't be explained by the Standard Model. What we really need is a modern day Galileo that can perform some sort of observations, like finding Jupiter's moons, that don't fit in with the existing conventional physics.

Could the would-be modern-day Copernicii be being stymied by modern-day academic funding structures and grant review committees?

Re: It’s time to admit quantum theory has reached a dead end

#58

Post by bricemo »

lacker wrote: post #47
geijoenr wrote: post #5

For some time already we are in an "epicyclean phase" of physics, trapped by the extraordinary predictive success of Quantum Electrodynamics and still using mathematical methods devised in the 19th century (variational calculus). This has lead us to the current situation, with extremely complicated theories at the limit of human understanding that bear no new results. It will take a modern day Copernicus to come up w…

It will take a modern day Copernicus We might already have a modern day Copernicus. Could be string theory, could be something else. The problem is that we don't really have any experimental data that can't be explained by the Standard Model. What we really need is a modern day Galileo that can perform some sort of observations, like finding Jupiter's moons, that don't fit in with the existing conventional physics.

27% of the universe is totally unknown (dark matter) and another 68% is totally unknown (dark energy), leaving only 5% of our universe that is explained by the standard model.

Feels very epicycle-ish and ripe for a major shift.

Re: It’s time to admit quantum theory has reached a dead end

#59

Post by hujun »

jiggawatts wrote: post #4
jleyank wrote: post #2

From the point of view of chemistry, QM “works”. It provides results that can be tested experimentally and predictions that can be validated. There are issues with computability but that’s more engineering than science. Determining structure, spectra and other physical properties is quite helpful. What was the cliche? All theories are wrong, some theories are useful. It needs to be rephrased from vector codes into ma…

To me, this always felt like programmers excusing abhorrent code with "but it works". Quantum theory isn't. It's not a single, cohesive, consistent theory.[1] There is no recipe you can apply, it's just a bunch of guessworks and heuristics that happen to produce the numerically correct equations if you keep trying long enough. This isn't secret or some sort of external criticism, you'll find this front-and-centre in…

sounds like how ML/neuron network works today, computer comes up a super complex math equation that no human could understand to fit the data fed

Re: It’s time to admit quantum theory has reached a dead end

#60

Post by pgalvin »

lacker wrote: post #47
geijoenr wrote: post #5

For some time already we are in an "epicyclean phase" of physics, trapped by the extraordinary predictive success of Quantum Electrodynamics and still using mathematical methods devised in the 19th century (variational calculus). This has lead us to the current situation, with extremely complicated theories at the limit of human understanding that bear no new results. It will take a modern day Copernicus to come up w…

It will take a modern day Copernicus We might already have a modern day Copernicus. Could be string theory, could be something else. The problem is that we don't really have any experimental data that can't be explained by the Standard Model. What we really need is a modern day Galileo that can perform some sort of observations, like finding Jupiter's moons, that don't fit in with the existing conventional physics.

Only an undergraduate in Physics, but rest assured that there are many smart minds currently in search of this! Building bigger particle colliders is not the only solution, and there are a lot of interesting things being done with e.g. neutrino physics that may bear fruit in contradicting the standard model.
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