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MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

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Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#51

Post by cgio »

cm2187 wrote: post #39
rootusrootus wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't really been a problem for other countries to avoid this problem, so I'm not sure how worried I ought to be. Like so many things, I'll worry about trends when there is a trend.

It has been a problem. There is pretty much a duopoly, look at the difficulties you face if they disapprove your business or politics. More competition is long overdue. But we are testing modern finance by weaponising the financial system. The most problematic move I think has been freezing the central bank's reserve. It might achieve the short term gain of hurting Russia, but what about the long term impact on the t…

I anticipate lots of gold moving physically over the next few months.

Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#52

Post by lil_dispaches »

tmp_anon_22 wrote: post #15
systemvoltage wrote: post #9

Do companies of this size already have the infrastructure built, a kill switch of the sorts, to turn off an entire country’s payment system? I’m thinking not just technology wise, but also things like existing subscriptions and contractual legal stuff between countries, customers, etc. It seems like a monumental undertaking to integrate payment systems for a new country, turning it off seems even more impressive.

Sanctions aren't new, any sufficiently large international company likely has dealt with this before. And it doesn't happen all at once, you start by turning off new registrants, then you go through records of existing entities that need to be turned off and turn them off, then you continue to watch for whatever you missed.

Visa and Mastercard are not issuing "sanctions", nobody told them to cut off Russia, they are willfully making calculated business decisions.

Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#53

Post by phs318u »

gunfighthacksaw wrote: post #26
ghiculescu wrote: post #21

I’m not pro crypto or pro Russia, but the fact that it’s so easy to lose ones freedom to transact[0] (regardless of the specific merits here) is troubling. [0] https://mobile.twitter.com/punk6529/status/14944446246304030...

Historical regimes have managed to implement similarly restrictive controls on the population with absolutely primitive technology compared to today. It’s troubling, but hardly without precedent. Imagine if they had social media in the 30s-40s.

> Imagine if they had social media in the 30s-40s.

I have thought about this, and given the amount of pro-Fascist sentiment in Western Europe, WWII probably wouldn't have happened. Germany would probably have gotten away with taking Austria, Czechoslovakia, possibly the lands forfeited to France after WWI and at least part of Poland.

The world would look VERY different to today. Assuming Japan stuck to their neck of the woods, the USA probably would never have gotten to be a super power (given it was WWII that really catapulted them into that category). The UK may still have reasonable parts of the empire. The super powers would probably be Germany, USSR and a lesser extent, UK, Japan.

This is the stuff of alt-historical fiction.

EDIT: apologies for straying off topic but I couldn't resist.

Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#54

Post by youngNed »

cm2187 wrote: post #42
323 wrote: post #2

Visa too: > Visa Suspends All Russia Operations https://usa.visa.com/about-visa/newsroom/press-releases.rele... MasterCard/Visa cards issued in Russia will not work abroad, cards issued abroad will not work in Russia. > MasterCard/Visa account for three-quarters of payments in Russia https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/150023911662537932...

And paypal this morning too [1] It does feel coordinated. I know corporate law is kind of irrelevant in a context of war, but it feels more than ever like a cartel. [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/paypal-shuts-down-its-servi...

> It does feel coordinated

This whole thread has been an eye opener for me, I had no idea so many people had so little idea of what 'economic sanctions' means.

Yes, yes it does feel coordinated. Have you noticed it came after sanctions were announced as well??

Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#55

Post by risyachka »

grandpoobah wrote: post #20

Call me insane, but this feels insane. It would be one thing if Visa/Mastercard were being forced to do this, but for them to take it upon themselves to "pick a side" during a global conflict feels really wrong.

They are not picking a side. There is only one side - and it is accepted by the whole world. So not really a choice here at all.

Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#56

Post by zamalek »

ghiculescu wrote: post #21

I’m not pro crypto or pro Russia, but the fact that it’s so easy to lose ones freedom to transact[0] (regardless of the specific merits here) is troubling. [0] https://mobile.twitter.com/punk6529/status/14944446246304030...

This is analogy is an over-vilification of the Russian people, but I do think it helps bring the intricacies of this into perspective:

Imagine there's one big bully in a schoolyard playground, alongside the one kid who is singled out. All the other kids (freely) choose to follow the bullies' lead and, at the very best, join in by ostracizing the victim. Who is in the wrong in that scenario?

The best thing Russian people can do is render Putin the king of an empty kingdom, and that was always the solution. Sure, there are hundreds of thousands, to millions and tens of millions of people (depending on where the poverty line is in Russia) for who that isn't an option. Equally so, those people wouldn't have been able to lift Putin's empire into what it is today. There would rather be no expertise for nukes, nobody to architect oil pipelines, and a terribly demoralized and disloyal army. Russia is has aspects of a developed country because of the fantastic people that live there.

Stop paying taxes to dictators, narcissists, and megalomaniacs.

We should widely open borders to Russian refugees and defectors. Patriotism is the love of a country, not a dictator.

Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#57

Post by alkonaut »

3np wrote: post #12
samwillis wrote: post #5

Mirror: https://archive.ph/d5RmA (was down) Key passage: “ With this action, cards issued by Russian banks will no longer be supported by the Mastercard network. And, any Mastercard issued outside of the country will not work at Russian merchants or ATMs.” I don’t believe it’s clear that cards issued in Russia are not still being accepted within Russia. Which is what I believe Visa is still doing: “ all transactions…

So individuals who recently left Russia out of fear for the regime and may be in very vulnerable positions have potentially unexpectedly lost access to their funds until they can sort that out... Meanwhile, for The Real Russians, business as usual. This looks like theatre hurting the wrong people.

Anyone who ran across the border and hoped to get their savings from inside Russia once out were naive (or more likely just in a hurry). This is one of few good use cases for cryptocurrency.

Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#58

Post by lmilcin »

tananaev wrote: post #23
323 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MastarCard statement suggests that Russian cards will not work in Russia. > we have decided to suspend our network services in Russia.

It's phrased very carefully "cards issued by Russian banks will no longer be supported by the Mastercard network", which sounds like they still might work in Russia even if they are not supported by the network. Next sentence is "any Mastercard issued outside of the country will not work at Russian merchants". Why make this clear distinction? Why not just say that all Mastercard won't work in Russia?

I worked in credit card acquiring business (implemented credit card application for the terminal).

Cards with Mastercard or Visa logo can still work without Mastercard or Visa processing the payments.

Obviously, they do work in ATMs.

For normal payments it is possible for another company to step in and process the payments. That would be massive effort but not impossible to get done in say couple of weeks.

But that would still mean that the system would be cut off from the rest of the world -- cards issued by Russian banks would not be valid outside of the new system. Cards outside of Russia would not work because it cannot communicate with Russian system. And cards issued outside of Russia would not work inside Russia for the same reason -- the transaction would not be possible to authorise across the border.

Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#59

Post by cm2187 »

youngNed wrote: post #54
cm2187 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And paypal this morning too [1] It does feel coordinated. I know corporate law is kind of irrelevant in a context of war, but it feels more than ever like a cartel. [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/paypal-shuts-down-its-servi...

> It does feel coordinated This whole thread has been an eye opener for me, I had no idea so many people had so little idea of what 'economic sanctions' means. Yes, yes it does feel coordinated. Have you noticed it came after sanctions were announced as well??

Thanks for implying I don't know what an economic sanction is. I do not believe this is part of the economic sanctions announced by gvts. This is a private initiative.

Re: MasterCard suspends all services in Russia

#60

Post by assusdan »

323 wrote: post #41
assusdan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Russia, all country-local Visa and MasterCard payments are processed by country-owned NSPK system https://nspk.com So all local payments will work, but no abroad payments (and no foreign cards to pay locally in Russia). Probably, I will lost most of my cloud data and compute resources incl. VPNs. Fortunately, some providers do accept SWIFT payments.

Do the providers accept ruble? My understanding is that foreign currency transfers to outside was banned (capital control).

It is partially banned/restricted for companies only. Personal transactions do work well. However, there 12% tax on buying currencies on currency exchange for both companies and personal accounts
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