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Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

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Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#51

Post by viraptor »

yanmaani wrote: post #49
viraptor wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're aware that RT does not present "the other side", right? As in they don't provide an alternative valid-even-if-misguided/conflicting view. They provide what Kremlin wants them to publish. There are other Russian publications which are still Russia-censored, but are actual news reports which will give you similar information to what you've found. This is not "we ban Russia's news", it's "we ban Russia government…

A determination subject to whom? 1. RT does provide a view, and I would like to hear it, thanks. 2. Who decides what are the "actual news reports"? Who decides that RT is not "valid"?

> Who decides what are the "actual news reports"?

Ofcom for example: (yes, I know they're not EU anymore, first example I remembered, but in general government orgs tasked with media oversight) https://pressgazette.co.uk/ofcom-rules-against-russia-today-...

You can still find the material yourself if you're interested. It's the broadcasting that's being limited. Worst case, contact someone in Russia to send you screenshots. Your rights to seek that information are not affected. It's just that EU entities are not allowed to specifically help you.

If you want to read that view though and skip the pretense, just check https://twitter.com/russia or https://twitter.com/KremlinRussia_E or dedicated government websites.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#52

Post by woodruffw »

yanmaani wrote: post #47
woodruffw wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an overly broad reading. The hypothetical Tor operator's object (i.e. intent) is to run a Tor node, the contents of which they are entirely agnostic to (and may be formally agnostic to, if the traffic is additionally encrypted). To use some abductive reasoning, think about how this would apply generally: the law is clearly not written to ban encryption, even though your interpretation would suggest that any e…

No, encryption isn't going to help, because they can still block on IPs. Encryption plus eSNI helps, and if, for example, Yandex.Cloud sets up a big "shared host," I fully expect that to get the Kharkiv treatment, like Roskomnadzor tried a few years ago with Telegram. Tor operators can see the IP, they can see the DNS, and their operation has the effect of unblocking RT.

Who can still block on IPs? An interior Tor node doesn't have the information available to do that.

I think you missed the point of the abductive argument: you're describing a cat and mouse game, one that is fundamentally unrealistic. The more realistic scenario is that the intent described in the article has nothing to do with encryption, Tor, or anything like that.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#53

Post by Shadonototra »

randomhodler84 wrote: post #11

Nah. But in all seriousness, this is totalitarian ruling. Wtf eu? RT might be a trash fire propaganda news but the EU ain’t at war with Russia. If the people want to listen to the propaganda, and I’m sure there were listener equivalents in neutral places either via SW or MW broadcast in ww2. Making it illegal to route packets to them and to circumvent the block? Garbage tier laws.

It works, the people who wants to protect their interests are mad and are complaining about it on hackernews

Soon your crypto portfolio will vanish too ;)

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#54

Post by cycomanic »

yanmaani wrote: post #16
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if we don’t remove Russia from the world completely we are approving their invasion and keep the door open for further invasions. Only solution is to segregate whole country and all their allies from the world until they remove their leaders from positions of power

My concern is that with this, you're not just segregating Russia from the world, you're segregating the EU from the world. You're going to get a new Iron Curtain, only this time, the restrictions are going to be on both sides.

You're turning around cause and effect. The EU imposing sanction is segregating the world? How about Russia invading Ukraine?

Also read the precanned article that was accidentally released by Russian state media, this is not about Russia feeling threatened this is about Putins fantasies of a "great Russia" in the borders of the USSR

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#55

Post by yanmaani »

paxys wrote: post #33
randomhodler84 wrote: post #11

Nah. But in all seriousness, this is totalitarian ruling. Wtf eu? RT might be a trash fire propaganda news but the EU ain’t at war with Russia. If the people want to listen to the propaganda, and I’m sure there were listener equivalents in neutral places either via SW or MW broadcast in ww2. Making it illegal to route packets to them and to circumvent the block? Garbage tier laws.

EU and Russia are at war in all but name. One of the key challenges in such situations is combating enemy propaganda, and so not letting the Russian state controlled broadcaster play in your country 24x7 is a no brainer. Plus it isn't just about the content. Running a TV network can be a massively profitable business, and in this case the money is going out of EU citizens' pockets and straight to the Russian governme…

No. They are not at war "in all but name". War is a brutal thing, involving the deaths of thousands of young men. The EU is not by any stretch at war with Russia, nominally or otherwise.

The entire point of a free country is that people can handle the information. If not, why even bother?

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#56

Post by paxys »

yanmaani wrote: post #55
paxys wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU and Russia are at war in all but name. One of the key challenges in such situations is combating enemy propaganda, and so not letting the Russian state controlled broadcaster play in your country 24x7 is a no brainer. Plus it isn't just about the content. Running a TV network can be a massively profitable business, and in this case the money is going out of EU citizens' pockets and straight to the Russian governme…

No. They are not at war "in all but name". War is a brutal thing, involving the deaths of thousands of young men. The EU is not by any stretch at war with Russia, nominally or otherwise. The entire point of a free country is that people can handle the information. If not, why even bother?

Who do you think is supplying Ukraine with the weapons that are causing half these deaths? Who is feeding them real-time intelligence? The Russian economy is crippled by EU sanctions. Their foreign reserves are frozen. Russian planes cannot fly into EU airspace. Russian oligarchs are having their assets seized across Europe. Diplomats are being expelled on both sides.

These are not the actions between neutral, peaceful countries, but a full-fledged proxy war.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#57

Post by yanmaani »

paxys wrote: post #56
yanmaani wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. They are not at war "in all but name". War is a brutal thing, involving the deaths of thousands of young men. The EU is not by any stretch at war with Russia, nominally or otherwise. The entire point of a free country is that people can handle the information. If not, why even bother?

Who do you think is supplying Ukraine with the weapons that are causing half these deaths? Who is feeding them real-time intelligence? The Russian economy is crippled by EU sanctions. Their foreign reserves are frozen. Russian planes cannot fly into EU airspace. Russian oligarchs are having their assets seized across Europe. Diplomats are being expelled on both sides. These are not the actions between neutral, peacef…

Europe, Europe, and Europe. But it isn't actually a war. A war is a horrible, brutal thing. Wikipedia tells us:

> War is an intense armed conflict between states, governments, societies, or paramilitary groups such as mercenaries, insurgents, and militias. It is generally characterized by extreme violence, aggression, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces.

When you describe what the rest of us would call 'poor relations' as war, it raises the question of what you call it when thousands are drafted and brutally slaughtered. If this also is to be called 'war', then it raises the question: if you're already at war with them, what difference does it make if you decide to draft a few million young men and send them over there? Or for that matter a few strategic offensive weapons (colloquially known as nukes)?

Alternatively, you may contend that what everyone else calls "war" you call, let's say, "war 2". But in that case, your definition is unique to you, and is not terribly useful for communicating with other people.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#58

Post by ur-whale »

viraptor wrote: post #38
im3w1l wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it worrying. Even if Russia is in the wrong here, I do see an RT ban in particular as a dangerous move. Even in wartime I do think it's important to be willing to listen to the other side. They may be wrong about the big picture, but there could still be an interesting tidbit or two to takeaway. All this talk made be go check RT out and one thing I learned is that the flight ban has left Russian tourists stran…

You're aware that RT does not present "the other side", right? As in they don't provide an alternative valid-even-if-misguided/conflicting view. They provide what Kremlin wants them to publish. There are other Russian publications which are still Russia-censored, but are actual news reports which will give you similar information to what you've found. This is not "we ban Russia's news", it's "we ban Russia government…

>You're aware that RT does not present "the other side", right?

You just described most american media

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#59

Post by spacexsucks »

yanmaani wrote: post #57
paxys wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who do you think is supplying Ukraine with the weapons that are causing half these deaths? Who is feeding them real-time intelligence? The Russian economy is crippled by EU sanctions. Their foreign reserves are frozen. Russian planes cannot fly into EU airspace. Russian oligarchs are having their assets seized across Europe. Diplomats are being expelled on both sides. These are not the actions between neutral, peacef…

Europe, Europe, and Europe. But it isn't actually a war. A war is a horrible, brutal thing. Wikipedia tells us: > War is an intense armed conflict between states, governments, societies, or paramilitary groups such as mercenaries, insurgents, and militias. It is generally characterized by extreme violence, aggression, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces. When you describe what the r…

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