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UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

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Re: UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

#51

Post by 0x12 »

samarudge wrote: post #10

While I'm aware this may get downvoted to the depths, I feel I have to say it. Why should kids be taught programming instead of reading, writing, language and maths? If the curriculum was changed to include programming, it would almost certainly reduce the funding and time put into other, more important subjects. While a good understanding of computers will help with almost any job in the future, unless you're going…

Because computer literacy is much like the ability to read and write these days.

A computer is a very powerful tool that is available to pretty much everybody in the developed world. Computer literacy translates into a workforce that is able to compete internationally from a position of strength rather than weakness. Think about the industrial age, one group gets to use all the powertools, the other work with their hands and hand tools, which do you think is more productive and will result in a stronger nation economically?

Re: UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

#53

Post by TheCapn »

corin_ wrote: post #28

This letter received in response really doesn't mean anything, it's just a generic "thank you for contacting us" letter. You'll (usually, 99 times out of 100) get a similar equivilent if you ever contact your MP, although in those cases it will generally be even less involved in the subject, along the lines of "Dear name, I agree that this matter is important and that is why I support this matter, yours, MP" It shoul…

You make a good point. Everyone feels that their voice should be heard but forget that the government represents a lot of people. If they personally responded to each letter that was received then I'd gamble they'd be doing their job much much worse than they potentially already are.

A response from them at all means that someone took enough time to count your statistic for/against such a topic. That's a stronger position then yelling at the TV hoping they'll hear you.

Re: UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

#55

Post by Dn_Ab »

samarudge wrote: post #10

While I'm aware this may get downvoted to the depths, I feel I have to say it. Why should kids be taught programming instead of reading, writing, language and maths? If the curriculum was changed to include programming, it would almost certainly reduce the funding and time put into other, more important subjects. While a good understanding of computers will help with almost any job in the future, unless you're going…

Programming is a tool like maths. There are many people who whose life would be greatly enriched by a simple knowledge of ratios and estimation. Yet most claim they have no need of maths.

Programming need not be taught for its own sake. It could be an enabler together with maths. A tool for exploring concepts. A lot of maths is difficult because it is so far from everyday concepts. So it takes a great deal of effort to supply the materials needed to build the supporting mental models. von Nuemann said "In mathematics you don't understand things. You just get used to them". One way is to drill lots of problems but this is boring and only a few people are disciplined enough to do it. Another way is to program the concept (all the maths an average person needs is finite, algorithmic and constructive), explore lots of variations, improve intuition, give a basis of attachment to motivate short quick drills to be able to then improve the model.

The power of programming is that it gives you a way to concretize abstract concepts in a virtual setting. Lessening the distance, hence making it more approachable. I have only a little doubt that I can teach a random 10 year old the basics of special relativity up to accounting for acceleration, using programming. And I am certain they would be able to learn Bayesian probability by playing with a programmable model designed to teach it.

There is also the added benefit of strengthened analytical thinking. You cannot know how a simple scripting knowledge can help a person without being them. My suspicion is it would help most people in some way. But no one can make use of something whose existence they are unaware of.

Re: UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

#57

Post by MediaBehavior »

0x12 wrote: post #51
samarudge wrote: post #10

While I'm aware this may get downvoted to the depths, I feel I have to say it. Why should kids be taught programming instead of reading, writing, language and maths? If the curriculum was changed to include programming, it would almost certainly reduce the funding and time put into other, more important subjects. While a good understanding of computers will help with almost any job in the future, unless you're going…

Because computer literacy is much like the ability to read and write these days. A computer is a very powerful tool that is available to pretty much everybody in the developed world. Computer literacy translates into a workforce that is able to compete internationally from a position of strength rather than weakness. Think about the industrial age, one group gets to use all the powertools, the other work with their h…

I concur about what you say (although it's not exactly an argument for teaching programming).

How different would the online world be if knowledge were universal about:

- copy/paste

- cmd/ctl +/- for resizing

- why password mgmt matters - and its basic principles

Self-educated web-surfers out there have amazing gaps in their knowledge - for things that are practically spinal reflexes to even a low-grade hacker like myself.

Re: UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

#58

Post by pnathan »

tomelders wrote: post #54

I challenge anyone to get a response from an MP that doesn't include the word "however", followed by a complete dismissal.

In my occasional letters to Congressmen, I usually get, "Thanks for your letter", followed by a dismissal. :-)

Re: UK government response to my letter about programming in schools

#60

Post by seabee »

samarudge wrote: post #29
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should kids be taught programming instead of reading, writing, language and maths? // > adding an extra topic that will only be useful to a small number of people would be wasteful. // Just as a comparison. In Wales, Welsh language is taught throughout school and in every lesson. Yet English language is understood and used by nearly everyone in Wales and Welsh language is used by less than 20% of people. In add…

Yes, Welsh is pretty much useless, but we're talking about introducing a new subject. Maths is useful in a lot more situations than programming would be, I bet most people don't realize how often they use maths without realizing. Things like algebra are about logic, deducing things, figuring things out. French is, again, a subject that can be dropped at 16 and not a core subject. I didn't study French at school (Tech…

In my primary school we had a basic computing class. We'd use different programs to familiarise ourselves with both the hardware and software. It would arise in other classes too, where it made sense - I remember typing my short story up into (whatever word processor the BBC Micro had). We even used LOGO - although with little success for most of the class. When you have to ask one of your students to help and fix problems on the computer, it's not a good sign, and the teachers often leant on me. So for a start that is the main problem in schools IMO. No point having a subject if people can't teach it properly.
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