Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

dino.im

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 76 posts

Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#51

Post by southerntofu »

astrobe_ wrote: post #36
ta-webrtc wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latency is as good as you can do when doing peer to peer calls, the trade off is bandwidth (and CPU, but mostly bandwidth). Latency and non-terminated encryption (end-to-end, not point-to-point) is great, and for calls with 3 or fewer peers the stability is fine. More peers than that and you probably want a media router in the mix, which adds some latency (all the calls have to route through a central server) and the…

I didn't find a meaningful difference between "end-to-end" and "point-to-point", except for a not-sourced stackoverflow post [1] and definitions for payment services standards. What is the terminology you use? [1] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10202143/what-is-the-dif...

I think the parent was referring to all participants encrypting stream for the video router, who then would reencrypt to its final destination. End-to-end means the video doesn't get decrypted in the middle.

Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#52

Post by southerntofu »

ta-webrtc wrote: post #25
axiosgunnar wrote: post #5

What is the latency on this? Still looking for a call solution that makes you feel like you‘re in the same room…

Latency is as good as you can do when doing peer to peer calls, the trade off is bandwidth (and CPU, but mostly bandwidth). Latency and non-terminated encryption (end-to-end, not point-to-point) is great, and for calls with 3 or fewer peers the stability is fine. More peers than that and you probably want a media router in the mix, which adds some latency (all the calls have to route through a central server) and the…

It's definitely possible to route encrypted streams, see also how Jitsi does it:

https://jitsi.org/blog/e2ee/

Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#53

Post by voltagex_ »

ryukafalz wrote: post #49
puggsy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The master branch as Dino is not suitable for mobile use, since its UI doesn't scale down. The feature/handy branch is needed. I haven't seen A/V calls working, but I know compatibility is being worked on. Audio calls will work before video calls. The Pinephone is a breath of fresh air, but it's not yet ready for casual use by techies. Pinephone is too slow to be my main phone. I'm looking forward to Pinephone Pro, w…

Even aside from speed, the original PinePhone isn't exactly usable if you want to use an XMPP client like this. It gets decent battery life by sleeping, but while it's asleep it'll stop receiving messages via XMPP, which... if that's your primary communication method, is not ideal. I desperately want to daily drive a Linux phone again, but the current batch just isn't there yet.

Come on now, it hasn't been there since the OpenMoko, even the N900 wasn't great compared to say the N95.

I have pretty much given up on the idea of running an "open source phone", unfortunately.

Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#54

Post by nicoco »

ryukafalz wrote: post #49
puggsy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The master branch as Dino is not suitable for mobile use, since its UI doesn't scale down. The feature/handy branch is needed. I haven't seen A/V calls working, but I know compatibility is being worked on. Audio calls will work before video calls. The Pinephone is a breath of fresh air, but it's not yet ready for casual use by techies. Pinephone is too slow to be my main phone. I'm looking forward to Pinephone Pro, w…

Even aside from speed, the original PinePhone isn't exactly usable if you want to use an XMPP client like this. It gets decent battery life by sleeping, but while it's asleep it'll stop receiving messages via XMPP, which... if that's your primary communication method, is not ideal. I desperately want to daily drive a Linux phone again, but the current batch just isn't there yet.

>while it's asleep it'll stop receiving messages via XMPP

Isn't there any API (? or something) for apps to run in "minimal" mode, to wake up the phone when needed? Does this also mean that it's not possible to have the phone notify you when you receive an email in sleep mode?

Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#55

Post by Zash »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #48

is setting up and maintaining an xmpp /jabber server and clients easier/difficult than matrix? i have been mulling the switch to a selfhosted thing for some time now but i need something that can run on low resources but isnt overly complicated

Try https://snikket.org/service/quickstart/ and see for yourself

Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#56

Post by ryukafalz »

nicoco wrote: post #54
ryukafalz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even aside from speed, the original PinePhone isn't exactly usable if you want to use an XMPP client like this. It gets decent battery life by sleeping, but while it's asleep it'll stop receiving messages via XMPP, which... if that's your primary communication method, is not ideal. I desperately want to daily drive a Linux phone again, but the current batch just isn't there yet.

>while it's asleep it'll stop receiving messages via XMPP Isn't there any API (? or something) for apps to run in "minimal" mode, to wake up the phone when needed? Does this also mean that it's not possible to have the phone notify you when you receive an email in sleep mode?

> Isn't there any API (? or something) for apps to run in "minimal" mode, to wake up the phone when needed?

Ubuntu Touch is the only distro that has a mechanism like this, and my understanding is it doesn't run that well on the PinePhone. The rest will wake up for an incoming call or SMS, but otherwise will stay asleep.

> Does this also mean that it's not possible to have the phone notify you when you receive an email in sleep mode?

Currently, AFAIK, yes.

Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#57

Post by EuAndreh »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #48

is setting up and maintaining an xmpp /jabber server and clients easier/difficult than matrix? i have been mulling the switch to a selfhosted thing for some time now but i need something that can run on low resources but isnt overly complicated

I've used the prosody XMPP server and the synapse matrix server.

IMHO, the basic prosody setup is a bit simpler, but with the "extra" configuration such as retention policies, they're equal in setup effort.

On the other hand, prosody is an order of magnitute easier to maintain and administer. synapse is too brittle, and its not uncommon to use gigabytes of memory, while prosody's resource usage is barely noticible.

On the occasions that I wanted to look under the hood and skim the code, I felt more confortable understanding and hacking on prosody.

Overall, I found synapse to be needlessly complex and big. I don't know if that's because it's the first implementation and it accumulated a bunch of legacy code, or that's something that comes with Matrix itself.

Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#58

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

EuAndreh wrote: post #57
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #48

is setting up and maintaining an xmpp /jabber server and clients easier/difficult than matrix? i have been mulling the switch to a selfhosted thing for some time now but i need something that can run on low resources but isnt overly complicated

I've used the prosody XMPP server and the synapse matrix server. IMHO, the basic prosody setup is a bit simpler, but with the "extra" configuration such as retention policies, they're equal in setup effort. On the other hand, prosody is an order of magnitute easier to maintain and administer. synapse is too brittle, and its not uncommon to use gigabytes of memory, while prosody's resource usage is barely noticible. O…

cool. so, would xmpp run on a 512mb vps? what about your average storage required? 20gb? 40?

could we say, define 2-3 days attachment retention rule to save on space?

Re: Dino 0.3: Video calls and conferences – encrypted and peer-to-peer

#60

Post by crowbahr »

puggsy wrote: post #44
crowbahr wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was shocked at how good the quality was in facetiming my in-laws on my wife's ipad. I've been using hangouts, signal, slack and duo for video calls and they were never nearly as crisp and nice as facetime was. I think Discord was similarly good but... Discord just isn't what I'm going to voice call family on... realistically ever.

Apple has more control over its platform and can ensure video acceleration works for all participants. Conference calls with a central server are particularly suspectible to "lowest common denominator" issues.

That makes a lot of sense. Vertical integration at its finest I guess.
Post reply on HN