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15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

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Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#51

Post by mft_ »

ahahahahah wrote: post #29
ddalex wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A marketer's trick. But he has at least one big win - SpaceX.

Is SpaceX a win? So far they seem to only be able to spend many billions of dollars. Are they just doing something that is so expensive that it loses tons of money and that companies that need to make money are unwilling to do?

Irrespective of one's feelings about Elon himself, SpaceX is pretty special, and few people who know about this sector would disagree.

They've revolutionised launching things (now including humans) into space through building cheaper rockets and then pioneering landable and reusable rockets. They've done this for a relatively low cost and pretty quickly, vs. their competitors who spend more money and time doing less impressive things. They've probably reduced the cost to orbit per kg by ~10x.

Regarding spending (and as with Tesla) don't confuse the cost of ongoing R&D with general running costs. Their launch business with Falcon 9/Heavy is profitable; but the R&D to get to where they are (with those reusable landing rockets, engine improvements, Dragon, Crew Dragon, drone ships, etc.) cost a lot. And they're now spending even more to develop Starship and a new generation of engines (Raptor) which will probably drop the cost to orbit by at least another order of magnitude.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#52

Post by YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo »

jsnodlin wrote: post #35
arcticbull wrote: post #6

And died in the most gruesome ways imaginable. One of them appears to have chewed off its own toe. Elon's folks tortured them to death for a goal I cannot properly articulate, tbh.

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#53

Post by faeyanpiraat »

pfdietz wrote: post #28
killingtime74 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe 2132

This. The whole thing sounds wildly science fictional, much more so than something as a simple as a reusable launch vehicle.

I don’t think so.

They are just implanting stuff into you.

There are already working implants, like pacemakers, this is just more complicated.

They have to figure out how to do it without causing too much side effects.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#54

Post by coryrc »

Barrin92 wrote: post #30

"Neuralink chips were implanted by drilling holes into the monkeys’ skulls. One primate developed a bloody skin infection and had to be euthanized. Another was discovered missing fingers and toes, “possibly from self-mutilation or some other unspecified trauma,” and had to be put down. A third began uncontrollably vomiting shortly after surgery, and days later “appeared to collapse from exhaustion/fatigue.” An autops…

We allow poor people to mine tiny bits of gold by burning (boiling?) off mercury, poisoning themselves, their family, and the whole ecosystem, as their nervous systems degenerate like a slow form of torture.

This is tame.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/28/climate/amazon-forest-mer...

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#55

Post by xupybd »

Barrin92 wrote: post #30

"Neuralink chips were implanted by drilling holes into the monkeys’ skulls. One primate developed a bloody skin infection and had to be euthanized. Another was discovered missing fingers and toes, “possibly from self-mutilation or some other unspecified trauma,” and had to be put down. A third began uncontrollably vomiting shortly after surgery, and days later “appeared to collapse from exhaustion/fatigue.” An autops…

I don't think so. We hold a special place for humans only a small minority elevate any other animals to that special place. I don't see that changing over time. I could be wrong I just doubt we will move in that direction.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#56

Post by xondono »

gherkinnn wrote: post #44
Computeiful wrote: post #9

“Pretty much every single monkey that had had implants put in their head suffered from pretty debilitating health effects,” said the PCRM’s research advocacy director Jeremy Beckham. “They were, frankly, maiming and killing the animals.” Elon's desire for human trials in 2022 definitely isn't going to work. Human trials in 2032 seems a much more realistic timeframe.

According to 2018, Tesla trucks should be in production last year. He’s a well of stupid ideas and false promises. Trucks, Cybertrucks, FSD, robots, tunnels, going to Mars in 2025, using Dogecoin for interstellar purchases, uploading our brains and sending that in to space. The list is endless.

Musk has cornered de market for wishful thinking

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#57

Post by xupybd »

maybelsyrup wrote: post #14
Computeiful wrote: post #9

“Pretty much every single monkey that had had implants put in their head suffered from pretty debilitating health effects,” said the PCRM’s research advocacy director Jeremy Beckham. “They were, frankly, maiming and killing the animals.” Elon's desire for human trials in 2022 definitely isn't going to work. Human trials in 2032 seems a much more realistic timeframe.

> Human trials in 2032 seems a much more realistic timeframe. Wait: the guy tortures (or pays for the torture of) intelligent life for literally zero benefit and your conclusion is that his trial timeline isn't realistic? I actually lol'd Self-crashing cars, science-blocking satellites, Ativan tweets, and now sadism to primates: what more evidence do we need that what this person requires -- in the most charitable po…

The benefits will be "literally" life changing for hundreds of thousands of people that suffer from conditions that could be aided by these devices. Then as the technology matures it's the kind of thing that can bring species wide changes. The benefits here can't be overstated.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#58

Post by throwaway_4ever »

Trolley problem. I wish most Neuralink detractors would even attempt to understand the problem scope, trade-off, and everything that's at stake here in our lifetimes. "Elon Musk wants more $" is such a brain-dead take.

The reasoning behind Neuralink is explained here: https://waitbutwhy.com/2017/04/neuralink.html#part4

TL;DR Some of the smartest people in the world consider AGI an existential threat and Neuralink is the leading hedge that instead of competing against AGI in futility, we augment ourselves to become the AGI instead.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#59

Post by xupybd »

arcticbull wrote: post #10
patrec wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish we had more people who under-deliver the way Elon Musk does.

So far he's... - planning to dig tiny tunnels with no ventilation or emergency egress for cars instead of, you know, trains [1] - [edit](as if the only reason we have traffic is because lanes are uncovered? maybe just put a roof over the highway as a beta test?) - he's walked back the whole hyperloop thing almost entirely [2] - some electric cars where he tried to overthrow the government of Bolivia to source lithium…

And made billions doing all of it.

Perhaps his success is as a salesman.

Re: 15 of 23 Monkeys with Elon Musk’s Neuralink Brain Chips Reportedly Died

#60

Post by Radim »

jsnodlin wrote: post #47
arcticbull wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Scientific progress has come to a standstill ... Has it? > ... with paradigm shifting knowledge within sight but out of reach for ethical reasons run amok. I mean we played this game before in the 40s, with Mengele and Japan's (and then the US') Unit 731. [1] > It’s okay let a few monkeys die, think of them like the cows you eat. I have no problem killing animals for food. I generally avoid torturing them to death…

Yes everyone is aware of what happens if you completely do away with ethics in science. Moderation is key here, the pendulum has swung too far to the other extreme from your example.

> ethics in science

You forgot about politics.

From the same article:

> Sanders took this information to General Douglas MacArthur, who was the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers responsible for rebuilding Japan during the Allied occupations. MacArthur struck a deal with Japanese informants: He secretly granted immunity to the physicians of Unit 731, including their leader, in exchange for providing America, but not the other wartime allies, with their research on biological warfare and data from human experimentation.

Reminds me of present-day Yemen. How many are disgusted by that genocide now, the same way future generations will be by Unit 731?

The "right" political deals were struck.

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