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SixtyFPS Becomes Slint

slint-ui.com

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Re: SixtyFPS Becomes Slint

#51

Post by RobLach »

whylo wrote: post #5

Hopefully this starts supporting accessibility tools before it gets too much traction and people start shipping inaccessible apps. The WebAssembley output demos on the homepage just render to a and are completely inaccessible with any of the usual tools (screen reader, keyboard-only, voice dictation etc) but there's a GitHub issue ( https://github.com/slint-ui/slint/issues/32 ) so fingers crossed.

This is an important factor. Accessibility only gets harder to integrate with time and is fundamental to any serious general long-term usage.

Re: SixtyFPS Becomes Slint

#52

Post by torginus »

whylo wrote: post #5

Hopefully this starts supporting accessibility tools before it gets too much traction and people start shipping inaccessible apps. The WebAssembley output demos on the homepage just render to a and are completely inaccessible with any of the usual tools (screen reader, keyboard-only, voice dictation etc) but there's a GitHub issue ( https://github.com/slint-ui/slint/issues/32 ) so fingers crossed.

The thing that (the generally excellent) MS UI Automation API has taught me is that making the UI accessible makes it testable and vice versa. Since any serious software projects needs tests, having a good accessibility story is paramount to delivering high-quality applications.

Re: SixtyFPS Becomes Slint

#53

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

alophawen wrote: post #7
beepbooptheory wrote: post #4

Any other frameworks that name overlap with a band?

To name a few: SDL: https://www.discogs.com/artist/707518-SDL DirectX: https://www.discogs.com/artist/4506329-Direct-X-2 Vulkan: https://www.discogs.com/artist/1464296-Vulk%C3%A1n

the "Direct X" one looks like an artist picking a "high-tech" name from a software framework.

Slint is the other way around, if anything.

Re: SixtyFPS Becomes Slint

#54

Post by ATsch »

nindalf wrote: post #13
robin_reala wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, a UI toolkit that doesn’t have even basic accessibility bindings is basically illegal to use for commercial products in multiple major countries now. No specific shame on Slint (everyone has their own roadmaps) but when even big companies are failing* in this way it does seem like we’ve got a long way to go as an industry. * Flutter has no accessibility bindings on the web and therefore falls under the same “il…

I’m surprised by how much progress we’ve made in this area. I used to make android apps circa 2013-15. Accessibility was an afterthought, a nice to have. Reading the SwiftUI docs in 2022, it’s front and centre. They tutorial covers accessibility soon after “hello world”. Every module of the tutorial has a section on setting the right accessibility info, rather than a single, optional accessibility tutorial. It makes…

The last time I spoke to a blind person it was quite a different picture, she was more or less forced to exclusively use apple products because nobody else took accessibility seriously enough.

Re: SixtyFPS Becomes Slint

#55

Post by boondaburrah »

jcelerier wrote: post #18
boondaburrah wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the problem isn't nearly as pronounced for rust, since rustup exists and rust itself isn't really available on any platforms you can't just update the toolchain yourself. C++ has a lot more tangled dependencies going on especially when you're stuck with a vendor's compiler. Make no mistake: the problem here isn't necessarily technological.

I don't understand what would be an environment where you could fetch the latest rust from internet but not the latest clang. I do my builds on centos:8 (well, rockylinux now) and it has access to the latest GCC 11. On Debian derivatives llvm itself provides up to date repos and on Windows, llvm-mingw works perfectly.

Generally, an environment where you can't use clang /at all/. There are many C++ compilers.

Re: SixtyFPS Becomes Slint

#56

Post by jcelerier »

boondaburrah wrote: post #55
jcelerier wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what would be an environment where you could fetch the latest rust from internet but not the latest clang. I do my builds on centos:8 (well, rockylinux now) and it has access to the latest GCC 11. On Debian derivatives llvm itself provides up to date repos and on Windows, llvm-mingw works perfectly.

Generally, an environment where you can't use clang /at all/. There are many C++ compilers.

but this does not make sense. If you can't even change the C++ compiler you use you can't write non-C++ code (e.g. Rust) either.

Otherwise let me just fork Clang into the "Gnalc" compiler for the "Sulpsulpees" language which happens to be exactly compatible with the programming language that the clang++-13 binary supports. Takes me a whole 15 minutes, most of which will be taken by forking the LLVM repo on github, and I can guarantee than porting to it will be less effort than porting to Rust. I can even provide the backing of a proper non-profit foundation established on two continents for your legal team's needs.

Re: SixtyFPS Becomes Slint

#57

Post by boondaburrah »

jcelerier wrote: post #56
boondaburrah wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally, an environment where you can't use clang /at all/. There are many C++ compilers.

but this does not make sense. If you can't even change the C++ compiler you use you can't write non-C++ code (e.g. Rust) either. Otherwise let me just fork Clang into the "Gnalc" compiler for the "Sulpsulpees" language which happens to be exactly compatible with the programming language that the clang++-13 binary supports. Takes me a whole 15 minutes, most of which will be taken by forking the LLVM repo on github, an…

The reason you can't use clang is not a technical one, but that you are /required/ to use the platform's provided C++ compiler.

And yes, you are making my point. We are in violent agreement.

You can't write Rust either, which is why C++ support would be initially exciting, until you learn you can't use just any C++ compiler and the one you can use is excluded.

Re: SixtyFPS Becomes Slint

#58

Post by jcelerier »

boondaburrah wrote: post #57
jcelerier wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but this does not make sense. If you can't even change the C++ compiler you use you can't write non-C++ code (e.g. Rust) either. Otherwise let me just fork Clang into the "Gnalc" compiler for the "Sulpsulpees" language which happens to be exactly compatible with the programming language that the clang++-13 binary supports. Takes me a whole 15 minutes, most of which will be taken by forking the LLVM repo on github, an…

The reason you can't use clang is not a technical one, but that you are /required/ to use the platform's provided C++ compiler. And yes, you are making my point. We are in violent agreement. You can't write Rust either, which is why C++ support would be initially exciting, until you learn you can't use just any C++ compiler and the one you can use is excluded.

Who has such stupid requirements ? What's the "platform" compiler for something that provides GCC up to 11, like centos ?

Re: SixtyFPS Becomes Slint

#59

Post by boondaburrah »

jcelerier wrote: post #58
boondaburrah wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason you can't use clang is not a technical one, but that you are /required/ to use the platform's provided C++ compiler. And yes, you are making my point. We are in violent agreement. You can't write Rust either, which is why C++ support would be initially exciting, until you learn you can't use just any C++ compiler and the one you can use is excluded.

Who has such stupid requirements ? What's the "platform" compiler for something that provides GCC up to 11, like centos ?

Embedded stuff usually, game consoles. Also if you have an Enterprise SKU of Visual Studio it costs real money to upgrade. Maybe your company has purchased a compiler suite you have to use. Maybe you have to link against proprietary libs that were only provided for a certain MSVC ABI.

Re: SixtyFPS Becomes Slint

#60

Post by jcelerier »

boondaburrah wrote: post #59
jcelerier wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who has such stupid requirements ? What's the "platform" compiler for something that provides GCC up to 11, like centos ?

Embedded stuff usually, game consoles. Also if you have an Enterprise SKU of Visual Studio it costs real money to upgrade. Maybe your company has purchased a compiler suite you have to use. Maybe you have to link against proprietary libs that were only provided for a certain MSVC ABI.

But you originally said: "Yeah the problem isn't nearly as pronounced for rust,"

It does not make sense: the problem is even worse for rust in that case, since you cannot even use it ?

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