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France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

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Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#51

Post by valarauko »

Teknoman117 wrote: post #15
HideousKojima wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Environmentalists are blocking construction of more wind power Environmentalists really are their own worst enemies. When I was in high school near San Diego about 15 years ago, there was a huge amount of opposition to a solar power project. From environmentalists. There was a solar power plant out in Imperial County and the environmentalists were protesting the high voltage lines that would bring the power into San…

Yeah, that one just boggles my mind. A few huge PV solar projects out in the desert in southern California and Nevada got stalled by environmentalists complaining about increased shading cooling down the desert. At this point, even if solar panels in the desert kill off a few species of lizards, seriously, what's the alternative? More damage will occur if we don't. It needs to be about minimizing total damage, even i…

> It needs to be about minimizing total damage, even if it means damaging isolated areas intentionally.

I think that's an arithmetic everyone largely accepts, but they just don't want to be the specific ones paying the price while others seemingly get only the benefits. NIMBYism, if you will.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#52

Post by isomel »

chrisseaton wrote: post #14
HideousKojima wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Environmentalists are blocking construction of more wind power Environmentalists really are their own worst enemies. When I was in high school near San Diego about 15 years ago, there was a huge amount of opposition to a solar power project. From environmentalists. There was a solar power plant out in Imperial County and the environmentalists were protesting the high voltage lines that would bring the power into San…

Isn't environmentalists' argument that we should reduce our power consumption, rather than destroying the environment to keep providing so much power? That's not as crazy a position as you make it out to be is it?

Yeah, humans have lived fine before fossil fuels so we can do it again, right? Just kill half of them. And let 90% of the remaining population work in the fields like slaves. Easy /s

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#53

Post by pvaldes »

ekabod wrote: post #45
socialdemocrat wrote: post #7

I am skeptical to current nuclear power, would have liked Molten Salt Reactors instead. However I see leaders having to do something. Environmentalists are blocking construction of more wind power, and crisis with Russia makes gas less accessible. France has a relatively good track record on nuclear power. They may pull this off. 2035 is a really long time to wait for new power to the grid though.

"France has a relatively good track record on nuclear power" What does that means?

No post body was provided.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#54

Post by nexuist »

tomdell wrote: post #42
axiosgunnar wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, either you have a job-providing trade-inducing environmental-friendly choice or you have a choice that allows you to virtue signal. I know which one I‘d choose.

Quoted post unavailable.

I am an ignorant prick, and if the powers that be had chosen to exploit poor people mining uranium instead of poor people mining coal 40 years ago, we would have avoided billions of metric tons of CO2 and saved millions of poor peoples' lives.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#55

Post by Krasnol »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #7

I am skeptical to current nuclear power, would have liked Molten Salt Reactors instead. However I see leaders having to do something. Environmentalists are blocking construction of more wind power, and crisis with Russia makes gas less accessible. France has a relatively good track record on nuclear power. They may pull this off. 2035 is a really long time to wait for new power to the grid though.

France just had to turn off 3 of their rotting reactors[0] and they lowered their estimates for this year to 295-315 TWh[1]. They're desperate, it's election year and they failed to come up with a diversified energy plan for the future. Luckily the recent taxonomy decision may help to avoid sharp tax rises to finance this backward and hilariously expensive[2] strategy but those EU funds won't run forever. Expensive times coming up for the French taxpayers.

[0] https://then24.com/2022/02/08/three-nuclear-reactors-shut-do...

[1] https://www.edf.fr/sites/default/files/epresspack/2447/5c9aa...

[2] https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/edf-announces-new-de...

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#56

Post by joe_the_user »

robertlagrant wrote: post #2

I keep hearing from people who think nuclear's a bad idea that "France is ramping down its reliance on nuclear power, so what does that tell you?" I wonder whether any will change their minds based on this news.

France is the only country I know that's managed to make nuclear power work. Unfortunately, they haven't been able to export that expertise.

Nuclear power plants are vast construction project. The construction and large-engineering industries combined are vastly corrupt in the US (look at the 3 billion dollars planning costs of the unbuilt high speed rail project in California, look at the Big Dig in Boston, etc). In an ideal world, nuclear might be great. In the existing US world, it seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

Edit: found this text on the problems of standardization of nuclear power in the US. http://www.strategicstandards.com/files/NuclearEnergy.pdf

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#57

Post by bjoli »

Bayart wrote: post #33
_ph_ wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, France has 58 mostly old reactors and have 1 under construction and now announced 6 more. To keep their current level of nuclear production, they would have to build like 40 in the next 20-30 years.

New plants are much more powerful than the older ones. But it's true that the relative share of nuclear is meant to go down.

I was under the impression that it is in the range of 1-2x per reactor. There are some old Swedish ones that are at 800mw, while the ones I believe the article refers to are in the ballpark of 1500mw.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#58

Post by Krasnol »

rdtsc wrote: post #3
robertlagrant wrote: post #2

I keep hearing from people who think nuclear's a bad idea that "France is ramping down its reliance on nuclear power, so what does that tell you?" I wonder whether any will change their minds based on this news.

> I keep hearing from people who think nuclear's a bad idea that "France is ramping down its reliance on nuclear power, so what does that tell you?" A cynical person might even imagine French infiltrators behind the scenes supporting anti-nuclear sentiments in neighboring countries in order to eventually sell them electricity. Energy independence and energy costs have started wars before, so it would just be pocket c…

You have to be joking...

France just had to turn off 3 of their rotting reactors[0] and they lowered their estimates for this year to 295-315 TWh[1]. They're desperate, it's election year and they failed to come up with a diversified energy plan for the future. Luckily the recent taxonomy decision may help to avoid sharp tax rises to finance this backward and hilariously expensive[2] strategy but those EU funds won't run forever. Expensive times coming up for the French taxpayers.

Why would you need conspiracies when the failure is so clear in front of you?

[0] https://then24.com/2022/02/08/three-nuclear-reactors-shut-do...

[1] https://www.edf.fr/sites/default/files/epresspack/2447/5c9aa...

[2] https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/edf-announces-new-de...

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#59

Post by Gwypaas »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #7

I am skeptical to current nuclear power, would have liked Molten Salt Reactors instead. However I see leaders having to do something. Environmentalists are blocking construction of more wind power, and crisis with Russia makes gas less accessible. France has a relatively good track record on nuclear power. They may pull this off. 2035 is a really long time to wait for new power to the grid though.

Last time around it was negative learning by doing for France[1]. I wonder what magical efficiency gains they will manage to muster compared to Flamanville [2], Hinkley Point C[3] and Olkiluoto 3[4] which the state owned french nuclear industry is building. Well, more than magical "simplification", "cost cutting" and "modular design" shown on a powerpoint before reality hits again.

[1]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03014...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_(nuclear_reactor)#Flamanvi...

[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_...

[4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olkiluoto_Nuclear_Power_Plant#...

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