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Resistbot: Contact your officials by sending a text

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Re: Resistbot: Contact your officials by sending a text

#51

Post by matteotom »

honksillet wrote: post #33

All the examples on the splash page are current Democrat priorities. Even if you are left, you are unlikely to agree with 100% of one party's platform. (If you do, start thinking critically please.) Can this tool be used to support your own priorities or is it just a retweet/amplify button for the Democrat party line?

> If you do, start thinking critically please

While there are some topics where I agree with both major parties, and many issues where both are near equally bad, I have yet to come across a national policy issue where Republicans are better than Democrats (even if the Democrats' policy is still not great). So yeah, I don't agree with one party 100% of the time, but I will support them 100% of the time over the alternative.

Re: Resistbot: Contact your officials by sending a text

#52

Post by slg »

slibhb wrote: post #49
MattGaiser wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voter ID laws are perfectly reasonable, so long as people can easily obtain ID. That is not the case. https://225egw40g2k99t0ud3pbf2ct-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-...

As I said, this is a "politicized drama". There is no solid evidence that voter id laws have any impact on voter turnout. The vast majority of Americans (80%) of all skin color support these laws. Describing them as "voter restriction laws" is literally true but dishonest and dishonesty is bad.

>There is no solid evidence that voter id laws have any impact on voter turnout... Describing them as "voter restriction laws" is literally true but dishonest and dishonesty is bad.

That argument goes both ways:

There is no solid evidence that voter id laws have any impact on voter fraud... Describing them as "anti-voter fraud laws" is literally true but dishonest and dishonesty is bad.

Plus the anti-voter id argument isn't even necessarily about turnout. Someone being unable to vote is still bad even if they weren't planning to actually vote. Many of these people are caught in a cycle of disenfranchisement. It isn't surprising that people who have historically had their voting rights infringed upon have decided to stop engaging with the system. One way to stop that cycle is to guarantee that these disenfranchised people will have the right to participate if they wish to do so.

Re: Resistbot: Contact your officials by sending a text

#53

Post by matteotom »

slibhb wrote: post #49
MattGaiser wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voter ID laws are perfectly reasonable, so long as people can easily obtain ID. That is not the case. https://225egw40g2k99t0ud3pbf2ct-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-...

As I said, this is a "politicized drama". There is no solid evidence that voter id laws have any impact on voter turnout. The vast majority of Americans (80%) of all skin color support these laws. Describing them as "voter restriction laws" is literally true but dishonest and dishonesty is bad.

Laws shouldn't exist just because people think they'd be a good idea. There's also no evidence that voter ID laws prevent voter fraud, or even that voter fraud happens at any meaningful rate. Advocating for unnecessary restrictions without evidence is dishonest and dishonesty is bad.

Re: Resistbot: Contact your officials by sending a text

#54

Post by abeppu »

ByteJockey wrote: post #50
gzer0 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first example I see is expanded access to voting rights. Since when did this become a partisan issue? Between January 1 and December 7, at least 19 states passed 34 laws restricting access to voting [1]. This should be a concern for any American citizen with the right to vote; don’t turn this into some politicized drama. Let me be clear; this is the very foundation of our democracy. I find it simply appalling tha…

> Since when did this become a partisan issue? Right around the 70s iirc. That's roughly when the modern progressive wing of the democratic party started to coalesce, and they've always had a big focus on it. Though it's a little weird how much heat it generates given that it's only a "top 5" issue for about 6% of people. [0] If that few people people even bring it up on polls, I'd expect any attempts to create drama…

I think there's a more recent flip side to it.

The two most recent Republican presidents got into office while failing to win the popular vote. Prior to Bush, that hadn't happened since the 19th century. In that context the GOP learned from those experiences that it's more important to have the right rules keep you in power than it is to actually have the support of the governed.

Re: Resistbot: Contact your officials by sending a text

#55

Post by slibhb »

matteotom wrote: post #53
slibhb wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, this is a "politicized drama". There is no solid evidence that voter id laws have any impact on voter turnout. The vast majority of Americans (80%) of all skin color support these laws. Describing them as "voter restriction laws" is literally true but dishonest and dishonesty is bad.

Laws shouldn't exist just because people think they'd be a good idea. There's also no evidence that voter ID laws prevent voter fraud, or even that voter fraud happens at any meaningful rate. Advocating for unnecessary restrictions without evidence is dishonest and dishonesty is bad.

I'm not strongly in favor of voter id laws (the deep blue area I live in has them). I just think it's dishonest to refer to them as "voter suppression". And I agree that there's no evidence of substantial voter fraud.

Re: Resistbot: Contact your officials by sending a text

#56

Post by LeoPanthera »

slg wrote: post #47
MattGaiser wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voter ID laws are perfectly reasonable, so long as people can easily obtain ID. That is not the case. https://225egw40g2k99t0ud3pbf2ct-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-...

Coupling a free and easy to acquire national ID for every citizen with the requirement to show your ID when voting is the obvious compromise. It makes one wonder why almost all the people pushing for voter ID laws refuse to engage with this compromise.

Because the people pushing for voter ID don't actually care about voter ID, they care about maintaining the current inequality in ability to vote.

Re: Resistbot: Contact your officials by sending a text

#57

Post by slibhb »

slg wrote: post #52
slibhb wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, this is a "politicized drama". There is no solid evidence that voter id laws have any impact on voter turnout. The vast majority of Americans (80%) of all skin color support these laws. Describing them as "voter restriction laws" is literally true but dishonest and dishonesty is bad.

>There is no solid evidence that voter id laws have any impact on voter turnout... Describing them as "voter restriction laws" is literally true but dishonest and dishonesty is bad. That argument goes both ways: There is no solid evidence that voter id laws have any impact on voter fraud... Describing them as "anti-voter fraud laws" is literally true but dishonest and dishonesty is bad. Plus the anti-voter id argumen…

> There is no solid evidence that voter id laws have any impact on voter fraud... Describing them as "anti-voter fraud laws" is literally true but dishonest and dishonesty is bad.

Agreed. Republicans talking about widespread "voter fraud" are liars.

Re: Resistbot: Contact your officials by sending a text

#58

Post by matteotom »

slibhb wrote: post #55
matteotom wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws shouldn't exist just because people think they'd be a good idea. There's also no evidence that voter ID laws prevent voter fraud, or even that voter fraud happens at any meaningful rate. Advocating for unnecessary restrictions without evidence is dishonest and dishonesty is bad.

I'm not strongly in favor of voter id laws (the deep blue area I live in has them). I just think it's dishonest to refer to them as "voter suppression". And I agree that there's no evidence of substantial voter fraud.

Making it harder for people to vote is literally voter suppression. You might argue that it is ineffective voter suppression, but I don't think you can argue that adding unnecessary steps to voting, and making penalties for making mistakes harsher while making it easier to make mistakes, is anything else.

Re: Resistbot: Contact your officials by sending a text

#59

Post by ByteJockey »

abeppu wrote: post #54
ByteJockey wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since when did this become a partisan issue? Right around the 70s iirc. That's roughly when the modern progressive wing of the democratic party started to coalesce, and they've always had a big focus on it. Though it's a little weird how much heat it generates given that it's only a "top 5" issue for about 6% of people. [0] If that few people people even bring it up on polls, I'd expect any attempts to create drama…

I think there's a more recent flip side to it. The two most recent Republican presidents got into office while failing to win the popular vote. Prior to Bush, that hadn't happened since the 19th century. In that context the GOP learned from those experiences that it's more important to have the right rules keep you in power than it is to actually have the support of the governed.

That seems more likely to be because the GOP has rigorously cultivated a base that's advantaged by the electoral college.

It's just weird how much culture warring happens over this when most people are ambivalent at best, and the types of voting restrictions we're talking about don't have much of an impact on turnout.[0] I suppose everyone has to have a hobby, but I guess I kind of expect this stuff to track things that are salient to the populace.

[0] https://academic.oup.com/qje/article-abstract/136/4/2615/628...

Convenience link to sci-hub for anyone wanting the full text: https://sci-hub.st/10.1093/qje/qjab019

Re: Resistbot: Contact your officials by sending a text

#60

Post by Amezarak »

MattGaiser wrote: post #45
slibhb wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Between January 1 and December 7, at least 19 states passed 34 laws restricting access to voting [1]. This should be a concern for any American citizen with the right to vote; don’t turn this into some politicized drama. It is a politicized drama. Voter id laws are reasonable, the majority of Americans think so, and calling them "restricted access to voting" is literally true but dishonest. "Resistbot" (from "the r…

Voter ID laws are perfectly reasonable, so long as people can easily obtain ID. That is not the case. https://225egw40g2k99t0ud3pbf2ct-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-...

The number of people that cannot easily obtain and do not already have a state-issued photo ID is very small, practically negligible - to our great misfortune, modern life has made it very difficult to leave your house without papers. Your own link goes into great detail about all the different photo ids the state offers and the different ways to obtain them and the initiatives to make it even easier.

This is another one of those bizarre mismatches between American and European politics, I suppose. In much of Europe (and most of the world, really), photo ID is expected and it often isn't even free, like it is in much of the US if you qualify. It certainly isn't easier to get! Your own Wisconsin-based link provides information about an IDPP process that allows you to get a state ID without any identifying paperwork for free! [1] The argument is simply that some people might find it inconvenient to get to a DMV within a couple years! (Actually, the argument in your link is also that it's 'offensive' to require a photo ID to resemble its bearer - not an exaggeration, an exact quote.)

This is definitely an example of an American issue that is very, very weird from the outside looking in. There's a lot of political and mental energy spent on a very microscopic issue.

[1] https://bringit.wi.gov/free-id-and-identification-card-petit...

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