Agree that its a non-issue. Linux is established, would be a really dumb move to block it like this.
In two weeks we'll have forgotten all about it.
Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting
51–60 of 146 posts
Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting
#52Here is a direct link to Matthew Garret's blog post so that you can skip itworld's paraphrasing. http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/5552.html
"An OS with a Pkek matching that installed in the firmware may add additional keys to the whitelist." Does this mean you can just add you own key and self sign any code you want?
Presumably you have to sign a pkek key with the firmware key. Even then, you don't actually have full control of your OS's kernel, so it may not be easy to insert a key.
Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting
#53Agree that its a non-issue. Linux is established, would be a really dumb move to block it like this. In two weeks we'll have forgotten all about it.
It's TPM like fear-mongering again.
Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting
#54Agree that its a non-issue. Linux is established, would be a really dumb move to block it like this. In two weeks we'll have forgotten all about it.
But what is "Linux"? If it were a package you could buy in a box from the store, the manufacturer would just sign a contract with OEMs to have a suitable key present in all manufactured computers, but Linux isn't like that. What if I want to compile my own kernel in order to try out an experimental feature, or help test a driver? What if I need to upgrade my boot-loader?
The only alternative to 'blocking Linux' is 'allowing anything to run', and if manufacturers were happy to allow that, they wouldn't bother with these features in the first place.
I'm sure there'll still be lots of computers that are capable of running Linux - multi-thousand dollar servers and high-end workstations; the kind of computers you buy through your account manager. It seems pretty sensible to block unauthorised OSs on low-end computers — the kind that ship with OS X or Windows Basic, the kind where minimizing support costs is vitally important.
Unfortunately, that's the same market segment where I and everybody I know got their start: taking over an old Windows box and putting Linux to see what the fuss was all about.
Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm told that at least one vendor will be providing some systems that don't allow you to disable the requirement.
I'm told that at least one vendor is going to lose a lot of money when its investors find out about this.
That depends... how about if it were presented as "our new models come with a feature that will dramatically lower support costs"?
Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting
#56I doubt any major vendor will do this. First off, they don't want to be locked into selling Microsoft-only machines. If they can't pretend Linux is an option, Microsoft can charge them $1000 for a Windows license and there's nothing they can do about it. If they have Linux hanging over Microsoft's head, though, they'll get better pricing on Windows. (Think this won't happen? It already did with XP on netbooks. When M…
> If that doesn't work, the need for booting non-standard Windows images will save us. I've never worked for any company that ran a stock Windows install -- everyone rolls their own. If new machines won't boot this image, guess what, that new machine is bought from some vendor that doesn't do this to them. That's not how this works. It doesn't expect that the entire OS install is signed. It expects that the kernel is…
> Microsoft's server product(along with its related tools and products) is massively successful. The Internet darlings may not run Windows Server, but many, many companies do.
Yes, and Linux as a server is massively successful. And the internet darlings are one of the biggest customers. If a machine can't boot linux because of the signed kernel requirements enforced at the firmware, those internet darlings would move to machines that can. That isn't a risk intel el al. are going to take, especially with AMD breathing down its back.
Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting
#57This is overblown. However, if this means secure boot hardware is even more widely available, it is a win -- if the keys are under control of the user or his organization, it is a huge security win.
Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting
#58I doubt any major vendor will do this. First off, they don't want to be locked into selling Microsoft-only machines. If they can't pretend Linux is an option, Microsoft can charge them $1000 for a Windows license and there's nothing they can do about it. If they have Linux hanging over Microsoft's head, though, they'll get better pricing on Windows. (Think this won't happen? It already did with XP on netbooks. When M…
> Nobody uses Windows as a server OS, This is the problem with getting tech news only from HN.
> This is the problem with getting tech news only from HN.
Most of us have worked one or more tech jobs, and HN isn't the source for the assumption that nobody uses Windows as servers. That nobody is far fetched - of course .net shops will most probably be deploying on Windows; for some reasons most of the Java shop do so as well.
But outside that, Linux or BSD is the favored deployment platform. And the OP's argument basically boils down to server vendors can't afford to not boot Linux, not when Linux has a significant market share.
Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Nobody uses Windows as a server OS, This is the problem with getting tech news only from HN.
Yes. At my last job, they had 200+ servers, all Windows. When I tried to bring up Linux as an option, they sort of winced and said "Linux... ehhh... it's hard to get Linux doing what you want."
I have never used Windows servers, and I am curious how do you do things which are obvious on Linux on a windows server?
1. Can SQL server deployment be automated? I remember reading somewhere it is mostly GUI administration, though things might have changed with WMI.
2. How do you manage IIS? Say you need to restart IIS on 200+ servers?
3. What is the remote model? Windows doesn't have a decent command line, so ssh will be weird.
Do you write custom code for all this, because I find the ecosystem on Windows sorely lacking.
Re: Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting
#60Does this also mean that you won't be able to boot Windows 8 on a PC you assembled yourself? Oh, they did not think of that.
One more reason to hate MS and want it die everywhere.